"Ron - When we're at double digit millions of illegals in the country, the net amount is only one factor. Allowing people to illegally cross a nation's borders and remain illegally in the country is something normal nations will not tolerate. The US should be no exception. Try this in South Korea, Australia, Switzerland, Singapore, etc and see how it works. The US should be no exception."
As I've said before, targeting the immigrants themselves does nothing to prevent illegal immigration. Target the businesses that hire them if you want to be serious about it. Otherwise, you're blowing smoke man and you know it.
I commend your dream and idealism, art of listening. Unfortunately your overlooking one thing thru the history of mankind. Irrational evil has existed and always will.
Ghandi was asked if he thought satagraha would work with pure evil. Such as Hitler. He said "Not without a tremendous loss of life, but isn't that what we had anyways." Are you prepared to die for your beliefs without raising a hand in defense?
As far as what we should do with illegal immigration now and into the future. Wouldn't the first step be to drop all the white european rhetoric and quit pointing fingers of blame over past issues which the present generation had no part of .
We have made mistakes in the past and cannot change that. Moving forward means both sides.
Do you think people of the world have a right to American Citizenship?
I'm always confused when I come across that place...is it a projects on super-valuable realestate?
WAY OVERPRICED: 2 dogs, chips/fries, soda costs $10. Menu is cluttered with illogical combinations, their chili is tepid gray wallpaper paste, they use nacho cheese instead of shredded cheese, no fresh tomatos or pickles.
Their "creative" flagship dogs are ever worse: beware "Sweet Potato Mustard", it is 1/4 yellow mustard and 3/4 Aunt Jemima's Syrup. Blue Cheese Slaw is probably good on its own but it doesn't work on the dog. The wieners they use are just average, not 1/4 pound and not as tasty as they should be.
Because it looks cool from the outside, puts style over substance, gets a lot of buzz, and is overpriced I am justified in calling it what it is: a TOURIST TRAP.
"There has been US interference into sovereign latin american countries for decades."
I understand this but fail to see why it means that latin americans should automatically be given US citizenship.
And Fish Pimp, please go read some history books. Fact check what you are saying. It was also the same white europeans that settled here as well. Creating genocide amongst the indigenous in North America...There has been US interference into sovereign latin american countries for decades. Coup de tats, upholding regimes that uphold Western capitalistic interests, Free Trade agreements that hurts those countries and on top of that ours as well....you really need to get your facts straight.
So, everyone is saying that the screwed up society of hate and conflict is the only way it will and can ever be. We can not live in an imperfect world and still have mutual respect for our fellow humans, animals, or earth? Is this completely impossible in anyones opinion?
I think it can, but, it won't if we continue to create our identities around an imagined one, and believe the rhetoric that those imagined entities create.
All I really should have said was that after meeting Eugene Platt, I'm convinced that he would have gotten over 10% of the vote had there been a televised debate.
Our bums are so snobby, most of them don't even eat rat.
Fish - by eliminating the dole our poor would suffer terribly, it's true. They would only be able to afford one vehicle for the family, not two (and that one vehicle might be several years old!). They would have to buy food carefully, and only eat basic staples instead of having a taxpayer-funded credit card allowing them to buy any foor in the store (though they could still easily consume 3000-5000 calories per day). They would not have cable TV. They would only have a basic mobile phone package, not a "smarphone". They might only be able to run their air conditioner on the hottest days. They might have to shop at Wal Mart for cheap yet perfectly functional clothes. Tattoos, hair and nail salon treatments would be too expensive.
Do you feel guilty? Somehow, I don't.
Jaxx, I have . It worked out really well, thanks. Very few illegal immigrants working there, and those that were, were often caught and deported. A great example for the US. Tell me about your years working overseas?
ROFL! Even if I didn't know about the recent lunar cycle, I'd know there's been a full moon recently.
While not endorsing the idea of eliminating the dole so that our poor can die the same miserable deaths from disease and malnutrition as the poor in the third world, I must say it's hard to swallow the crap Art oflistening is shoveling.
Mexico is not some country of indigenous peoples exploited by America. It was the richest prize in the New World. White men from Spain conquered, killed, and stole resources enough to become the most powerful country in the world. And as my Cuban roommate used to remind me, within 100 years those moronic European white men sank it all to the bottom of the ocean. This idea that the US owes something to Mexico or that Mexicans are morally superior to Americans is bullshit. Mexico is a melting pot. Mexico is built on exploitation and genocide. Mexico is a land of immigrants. And Mexico is a shithole. Don't go trying to blame America for that. Mexicans seem to argue that they have a right to live in America because our country turned out better but they don't.
The solution to our immigration problem is in the e-verify system. This is a system that has been so far blocked by conservative business interests who complain about the costs of both running the system and of losing their cheap labor. It also does poorly among the tin-foil hat conspiracy wing of the Republican Party who fear any governmental attempts to identify citizens.
I understand that the Democrats want to exploit a temporary demographic advantage but that doesn't make it right. Their one argument that seems reasonable is that it's unfair to allow freedom of movement of capital but not allow freedom of movement of labor. But to me, the answer is the restriction of capital not open borders.
bees is my new heroine!
"Try this in South Korea, Australia, Switzerland, Singapore, etc and see how it works."
Pick one. Move there. Tell us how it works.
Your obvious mistake, Ron, is assuming that all conservatives are "birthers" (I believe that's the correct term?). Obama was born in Hawaii to one American parent, which makes him a natural born American under both 'jus soli' (soil) and 'jus sanguinis' (blood).
What is stupid, though, is 'jus soli' birthright citizenship, where any baby popped out within our borders is granted citizenship. Few other countries on the planet are stupid enough to use that. We need to end it like almos all other modern nations have.
Ron - When we're at double digit millions of illegals in the country, the net amount is only one factor. Allowing people to illegally cross a nation's borders and remain illegally in the country is something normal nations will not tolerate. The US should be no exception. Try this in South Korea, Australia, Switzerland, Singapore, etc and see how it works. The US should be no exception.
ArtOf - I'm sure there are books. I just disagree with their false revisionist premise. The world is not and cannot be as you describe due to basic human nature, which is unchanging. Also, "the West" is only a part of the forces driving global events today, and a declining part at that. Immigration is not about superiority / inferiority, it's about law and order. A nation must put its citizens first in terms of policies, and there must be a definition of citizenship and how foreigners can become citizens. Again, other countries do a great job of this. Australia has an online test you can take to get a score to determine your suitability for citizenship. We should only accept those that can improve our nation, not those that drag us down.
Ima - all rational points. I would respond with:
1. The dole (named after neither Bob nor the fruit company) can be reduced and people would either work or starve or resort to crime and be imprisoned. That's how simple it is. The idea that "people just won't work, so we have to extract money from those who do to care for them" is what led to this problem in the first place by giving a pleasant alternative to work.
2. With no options to hire illegals (because we must enforce our borders and deport those that manage to enter illegally) wages will have to rise. So, asparagus will cost more. I accept that, it's preferable since A) my spending is voluntary unlike the taxation I am forced to pay and B) it goes to American wages which will be spent in America.
As for your solutions, we agree 100% on the first one. The latter is a crux of the issue, though - standard of living. As you are no doubt aware, our "poor" and those living on the dole are ridiculously better off than many billions in India, China, dozens of African nations, Latin American countries, Indonesia, etc. When the "free money" isn't there, people will moderate their standard of living and learn to make do with one car for the family instead of two, no cable, basic food, etc. Their desire to have more will push them harder to achieve.
This political rhetoric of us vs them is divisive, and creates ignorance and bigotry. We make integration so hard on people just by allowing this ongoing rhetoric of immigrants are criminals, scroungers, preying on americas wealth. When actually it is the other way around. These people and their children, and the hardships that they have to go through(racism, violence, etc), just to survive, because all living capabilities have been stomped in the mud by our policies be it economic or political, have destroyed the lively hoods of these people. We forget that mexicans after the mexican american war were the people that actually worked the land and built the foundation of what the west is today. These people never crossed any borders, the borders crossed them. People cannot be illegal by being a person...This is why i say we need to start thinking outside of our own center of the universe mentality. Its not something that can be fixed overnigt, but if we keep an us vs them mentality, we will always have social conflict. And if we dont understand the political scope, corruption, greed, power dynamics of the situation, and think of this as a problem because they want what we got, instead of the reality that many of the things that these people could possibly have at home were taken from them. Then we will never be able to solve the problem. So in short if people in america dont connect immigrants as people and not just an issue, and hold other people inferior, and dont come up with a solution based on a mutual respect for one another, there will never be a solution.
I'd like to see ECB win, but did have the pleasure of meeting Gene and his son Paul and was really impressed. If he had a platform, such as the debate, I think he would have gotten more support, but then there is the age old dilemma of the third party spoiler. I suppose at some point we will have to commit to a universal health care system. What I don't like is hiking up my health insurance premiums to pay for someone else's free health insurance. What ever happened to the universal option for everyone, especially middle class? When Obama leaves office South Carolina will have to find a way to fit in with the rest of the nation. I didn't have a chance to talk with Gene Platt long but almost with he would run in one of the other parties and keep the same issues.
In honor of the great Frankie Manning, we are having a live Swing band every Sunday in May, culminating in a grand finale on the 26th with Classic Memories Big Band!
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