FEATURE STORY ‌ Rethinking AIDS 

Doubters abandon traditional HIV/AIDS theories and treatment

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Everything known about AIDS suggests that Noreen Martin is near death. The 53-year-old Lowcountry woman was diagnosed with AIDS three years ago. Her viral load, the rate of HIV in her blood, is at more than 100,000 — 200 to 500 is good and an undetectable number is even better. Her CD4 rate that gauges the number of “helper” cells in her system is at 136 — healthy people run between 600 and 1,200. Martin’s doctors have begged her to take antivirals, but she’s refused the drugs since March and the numbers keep heading in the wrong direction.

The puzzler is that Martin looks great. She feels great. She says it's no surprise. She claims it's because everything known about AIDS is wrong. She says HIV is a harmless retrovirus that can't be sexually transmitted, that AIDS medicine can cause the very disease it is expected to fight, and that the government knows this and is ignoring the facts.

It should be said early that this is not the generally accepted understanding of HIV and AIDS. The Centers for Disease Control and the National Institute of Health point to thousands of studies that show HIV is primarily a sexually transmitted disease that depletes the body's immune system, opening it up to one or more AIDS-defining opportunistic infections.

At first glance, "AIDS rethinkers" like Martin seem to be buying into an elaborate conspiracy theory. Most rethinkers contend that the man who discovered HIV stole it from the French, many gay men get AIDS because of poppers and other recreational drug use, and most notably, there's no AIDS epidemic.

Their argument is based on one disputable fact: No scientific study has been done that proves that HIV causes AIDS.

An argument that is contested, of course, by HIV and AIDS researchers. There are thousands of articles that prove the connection between the virus and AIDS, says Cornell University professor John Moore, even if there isn't a singular paper that draws the line between the two.

"It's like a moon rocket," he says. "You're not going to go to the web and find one five-page paper on how to build a moon rocket, but you know that it has been done."

The scientific evidence is overwhelming and compelling that HIV is the cause of AIDS, says Jennifer Ruth, spokeswoman with the National Center for HIV, STD, and Tuberculosis Prevention.

"Infection with HIV has been the sole common factor shared by AIDS cases throughout the world among men who have sex with men, transfusion recipients, persons with hemophilia, sex partners of infected persons, children born to infected women, and occupationally exposed health care workers," Ruth says.

Henry Bauer, a retired chemistry and science professor and an ardent rethinker, says history has shown reversals in science when the orthodoxy was challenged by mounting questions.

"When the questions get to a critical mass, it's a revolution," he says. "But it's often a bloody revolution."

"Rethinkers"

The underground scientific controversy over AIDS began in the disease's earliest days. On June 5, 1981, the Centers for Disease Control reported the deaths of five gay men in Los Angeles from a rare type of pneumonia and a month later, they reported more than two dozen cases of gay men with Kaposi Sarcoma, another very rare disease. As the AIDS table grew to include drug users and hemophiliacs, scientists scrambled to find answers.

Rethinkers say American Robert Gallo claimed in 1984 to have found HIV, but his findings were based on a French group's 1983 study of the virus. Gallo's perceived deception is a sticking point for rethinkers because they say it is only the first in a string of lies regarding the disease.

In 1986, the Australian-based Perth Group claimed there was no proof that HIV existed. A year later, American scientist Peter Duesberg joined the argument, acknowledging that HIV existed but claiming it was harmless and that AIDS did not show signs common to contagious diseases.

"It's so anti-scientific when you read these studies," Duesberg says of more than 20 years of AIDS research. "As a scientist, you have to ask all the questions."

Duesberg's theory would gather support over the years as reports on his ideas continued to grow. But they were far outpaced by studies that furthered the popular counterargument that HIV depletes T-cells, which work to fend off disease in the body, ushering in AIDS typically within a decade of transmission.

Those only modestly familiar with HIV and AIDS can be excused for not hearing about rethinkers, but a quick search for information on HIV or AIDS on the internet will show various chatrooms, blogs, and internet sites dedicated to furthering Duesberg's message.

Bauer has been collecting HIV and AIDS data compiled since the onset of the disease.

"What that data shows is that the rate at which Americans test positive for HIV has been the same for 20 years," he says. "Therefore it's not a spreading epidemic."

The Centers for Disease Control's findings mirror Bauer's claim, noting that the number of people diagnosed with HIV or AIDS in 2004 was about the same as it was in 2001 in the 35 states that compile these figures. But a recent United Nations AIDS report notes that HIV infections continue to grow in Africa, but now at a slower pace than eastern Europe and central Asia, where there were 270,000 infections in 2006 compared with 170,000 in 2004. With the expectation that many HIV-positive people don't know they're positive, UNAIDS estimates that 39.5 million people are living with HIV worldwide and 4.6 million people were infected in 2006 alone.

The rethinkers movement received attention in 2000 when the government of South Africa began a public debate on HIV, AIDS, and antiviral medicine and called in Duesberg and other rethinkers to help determine how the country would combat the disease. AIDS activists have since worked around the government to get antiviral medicine and HIV education to the people.

Australia will soon have its own debate over the validity of HIV. That country's Supreme Court recently heard arguments in a case where an HIV-positive Australian man claimed that he could not have infected a woman and endangered two other sex partners because HIV hasn't been proven to exist.

The rethinkers movement took a blow last year when outspoken rethinker Christine Maggiore, who had refused antiviral medicine for years, even while pregnant, and decided against testing her two small children for HIV, lost her three-year-old daughter to an AIDS-related illness. Her son has since tested negative.

AIDS rethinkers exchange news on these stories and various AIDS findings through a growing number of websites that offer support for rethinkers, which heartens Martin.

"When I did it, I had to do it the hard way," she says.

Noreen's Story

Among a varied collection of antique books in Noreen Martin's library is an old, thick book from the Library of Health that she considers one of her favorites because of the inscription on the book cover: "You can do nothing to bring the dead to life; but you can do much to save the living from death."

Martin, a Hanahan housewife who does some reporting for the community paper as a hobby, has been fighting off injuries and illness for years, including a herniated disc and pinched nerves, cancer, an ear infection, and various allergic reactions to medicine she was taking to combat these problems.

"I've forgotten a lot, which is a good thing," she says. "It's part of the healing process. The mind has a way of blocking out the negative things or bad memories."

In 2003, her health further deteriorated, as she began experiencing fatigue, nausea, diarrhea, breathing troubles, weight loss, and continued memory loss. Doctors pressed her to get a bone biopsy and blood tests to determine if she had cancer. The tests came back indicating she was cancer-free, but further tests found she had HIV and AIDS.

"After months and months of being sick, I was relieved," Martin says. "I just wanted to know what was wrong."

Martin was told to wait two months for an appointment with an infectious diseases doctor. Not wanting to wait around, she went to a health food store, where the owner told her about an alternative doctor who performs chelation therapy, a hours-long cleansing of sorts for the blood that targets proteins and is supposed to help with blood flow. Chelation therapy has its own controversies, with the American Heart Association and the FDA stating there is no medical benefit to the practice and the CDC attributing the deaths of two children to a chelation drug called Endrate. But Martin says it was one of the few things that helped her in the early months after she was diagnosed.

"It didn't cure me, but it certainly helped," Martin says. "On the chelation days I could at least get off the couch."

But her overall health continued to decline and when she finally got to the infectious diseases doctors, they rushed to get her on an antiviral medicine that Martin concedes likely saved her life.

"I had about three different viruses going on at the same time, so these things were a godsend," she says, though noting that the success of the medicine was in tandem with healthy living and natural supplements.

But her doctors weren't supportive of Martin's alternative supplements, which sent her looking elsewhere for answers and eventually to the rethinkers movement.

"The more I read, the more things just weren't adding up," she says.

click to enlarge The picture of health – Noreen Martin has AIDS, but she's refused antiviral medicine and believes her disease is based on a natural immune deficiency
  • The picture of health – Noreen Martin has AIDS, but she's refused antiviral medicine and believes her disease is based on a natural immune deficiency

Where Martin had first thought that she had HIV, she now doubts that initial test and believes that she contracted AIDS through a natural immune deficiency.

"Everybody's immunity is different," she says. "I can't give somebody my immunity any more than I could give them my toothache."

Feeling better, Martin decided to go off the antiviral medicine in early 2005, but soon returned to it after pressure from the doctors and her husband. Last March, she decided that she would get off the medicine and not look back. She is now taking Low Dose Naltrexone, a drug that helps people with immune deficiency diseases, that was prescribed by another physician.

Though he's not familiar with the rethinkers movement, Robert Cantey, director of infectious diseases with the Medical University of South Carolina, says an AIDS patient ditching their drugs isn't uncommon.

"That's a typical response when someone has a good response to the medicine," he says, but notes it was more common years ago when the side effects were more severe.

Martin says she's been in great health since going off her antivirals, but the blood tests paint a different picture as her CD4s, the helper cells that ward off diseases, continue to fall and her viral load climbs from less than 100 to more than 100,000. Cantey says the numbers are now in the range where Martin is susceptible to brain, lung, or bloodstream infections that are common among AIDS victims. He says Martin's late diagnosis likely contributed to her quick drop in CD4s.

"The worse those numbers are when you go on the medicine, the faster they'll drop when you go off the medicine," he says.

Meanwhile, Martin's advice for others is to stay healthy and don't get tested for HIV.

"People's lives are being ruined by this very faulty test," she says. "You get the results and it's downhill from that point on. Doctors need to treat symptoms, but they don't do that. All they care about is if you're positive. If you're positive, you're screwed."

"Denialists"

Rethinkers have been combated quietly over the last 20 years, but more high profile attention on the movement in the past few years has prompted scientists that support the link between HIV and AIDS to openly refute the rethinkers' claims. Facing the public doubts of the South African government in 2000, 5,000 scientists, doctors, and researchers, including several Nobel Prize winners, signed the Durbin declaration that reaffirms that HIV causes AIDS.

Earlier this year, after what they saw as a one-sided story on rethinkers in Harpers magazine by a writer immersed in the rethinkers movement, Moore and other HIV scientists and doctors began the website www.aidstruth.org to refute the claims in the article. They have since updated the website to combat other claims by the rethinkers, whom they refer to as "denialists."

"These people are basically being persuaded to kill themselves," Moore says.

The argument begins with what causes AIDS. Rethinkers attribute the disease, in large part, to drug use. Duesberg notes drugs have long been known to deplete the immune system and an early study of AIDS cases among gay men found a large number of them used recreational drugs, primarily poppers, an inhaled drug used as a sexual stimulant.

"It's a matter of dose and time and genetic constitution," Duesberg says, noting that drugs effect different people in different ways the same way that smoking does.

But a 1993 study that followed 715 gay men for more than eight years found that 350 men who never acquired HIV noted "appreciable" drug use. Another 2005 study found a strong link between poppers and unprotected sex among San Francisco gay men, suggesting that even though the drug may not cause HIV/AIDS, it could place users at increased risk of contracting HIV through unsafe sexual intercourse.

If drug use causes AIDS, rethinkers then note that the concerns of sexual transmission are moot because it cannot be spread this way. Martin says that she does not use protection during sex with her husband. She points to a study by California scientist Nancy Padian that studied heterosexual couples where one was HIV-positive and one was HIV-negative and found that transmission of the disease was far less than one percent (as low as 1 in 1,000) among heterosexual couples.

It's Padian herself who refuted these arguments earlier this year on www.aidstruth.org. She notes that her study regarded couples that were counseled to use protection, not avoid it.

"Individuals who cite the 1997 publication ... in an attempt to substantiate the myth that HIV is not transmitted sexually are ill-informed, at best," she stated. "Their misuse of these results is misleading, irresponsible, and potentially injurious to the public."

Padian notes that HIV transmission between couples can be as high as 20 percent, depending on risk factors including other sexually transmitted diseases. Cornell professor Moore says that Padian is not alone and that certain lines from scores of studies have been selectively cited to further the rethinkers movement.

"Then these things become urban legends," Moore says.

Rethinkers also claim that the standard HIV test is woefully unreliable, claiming that as many as 70 factors can cause a false-positive.

"HIV has never been isolated in its pure form," Bauer says, "which means that these tests have never been validated."

This claim by rethinkers is based in fact. The majority of HIV tests aren't designed to identify HIV. They actually find HIV antibodies, or proteins the body creates to defend itself against HIV.

Moore says that technology has improved by leaps and bounds since the virus was first identified and that the rethinkers often base their logic on outdated data. To combat inaccuracies, HIV tests have been confirmed through a second, different test for several years. The Centers for Disease Control notes that the two tests together have a 99 percent accuracy rate, and Cantey says he'd put the accuracy rate at 99.9 percent.

Not only is the HIV test quackery, rethinkers argue, but so are the drugs HIV and AIDS patients are given to battle the disease.

Much like the test, medicines to combat the viral load have evolved as older drugs, which time has shown to be less effective, are replaced with newer drug regimens. Some rethinkers say that drugs like AZT cause AIDS and others say that the toxic side effects of the drugs have led to death.

"It's an example of the old saying that the operation was a success, but the patient died," Bauer says.

Today HIV and AIDS patients are typically given a cocktail of medicines. "Use of potent anti-HIV combination therapies has contributed to dramatic reductions in the incidence of AIDS and AIDS-related deaths in populations where these drugs are widely available," the NIH's website states. "An effect which clearly would not be seen if antiviral drugs caused AIDS."

Africa's high-profile struggle with AIDS has also received the ire of the rethinkers. People with AIDS in Africa are dying from the same diseases that have always plagued them: wasting, malnutrition, and tuberculosis. Rethinkers claim this is because AIDS is not an epidemic in Africa and that the perceived plight is just a way to pull money to the region and bolster the global fight against AIDS.

"I've seen commercials of kids starving in Africa," Martin says. "That's nothing new. Now they have something new they can blame it on."

But just as AIDS-defining illnesses in America began appearing at much higher rates than seen before, these diseases in Africa are showing unusual trends when it comes to AIDS patients, attacking them at much younger ages and including those middle-class groups who aren't malnourished. A 1995 study found that HIV-positive people in Cote d'Ivoire were 17 times more likely to die from tuberculosis than those not infected with HIV.

Rethinkers also note that the disease is affecting different races and regions differently, something uncommon with communicable diseases. The NIH and others note various reasons for the difference, including in what groups the disease was first recognized and sex practices.

These and other attempts to refute the claims of the rethinkers have done nothing to quell their continued belief that everything the world has been told about HIV is wrong. Noreen Martin is active daily on a number of rethinker web forums and she has started her own website to further the cause and chart her own progress.

"Let people make up their own mind," Martin says. "I made up my mind and I'm not turning back."


Dec. 1 – World AIDS Day Charleston Events

On Friday, the world gathers to combat the spread of HIV during World AIDS Day. In Charleston, Lowcountry AIDS Services and other groups will expand this year's events to two days.

Events will begin on Thurs., Nov. 30 with information booths set up from 11 a.m.-1 p.m. at the College of Charleston's North Campus, Trident Technical College's Main Campus, The Citadel, and at the Medical University of South Carolina, which will also host a luncheon with guest speaker Dr. Preston Church.

On Fri., Dec. 1, there will be events at MUSC's horseshoe from 11:30-1:30, at the College of Charleston from 11 a.m.-1 p.m. at Rivers Green, and from 11 a.m.-2 p.m. at Trident Technical College Palmer Campus. Roper Medical Center and St. Francis Medical Center will also have panels of the AIDS quilt on display from 10 a.m.-2 p.m.

A candlelight march and rally will begin at Marion Square near the Embassy Suites at dusk, around 5:30 p.m., with marchers walking to the Cistern at the College of Charleston where they'll have the opportunity to call there loved one's name publicly. There will be an area of healing and comfort at the Cistern with lay pastors and counselors and refreshments for those that need assistance.

Glass luminaries dedicated to those lost from HIV/AIDS are also available for $10. Their names will be labeled onto the luminaries, which can be retrieved at the end of the event. For more information, contact Mark McKinney at 849-8531.

A little more than a week later, on Sat., Dec. 9, more than 100 red ribbon retailers in downtown, West Ashley, and Mt. Pleasant will host Shopping with Friends, a fund-raiser for Lowcountry AIDS Services where 10 percent of the sales on that day will be donated to the AIDS organization.

The event starts with a kick-off party from 5-8 p.m. on Dec. 8 at Saks Fifth Avenue on King Street. On Saturday morning, there will be a brunch from 9 a.m. to noon at the Renaissance Hotel with complimentary gift bags. For more information on the events, visit Lowcountry AIDS Services online at www.aids--services.com/shopping.html or look for the posters in participating stores. –Greg Hambrick


AIDS By the Numbers

Worldwide

•39.5 million people in the world are living with HIV and 4.3 million were newly infected in 2006.

•Eastern Europe and Central Asia are outpacing Africa in the number of new AIDS cases, with 270,000 in 2006, compared with 170,000 in 2004.

Nationwide

•1.2 million people in the U.S. had HIV in 2005.

•Men still account for about 73 percent of the HIV diagnoses in the U.S., with almost two-thirds of those infections attributable to unsafe sex between men.

Statewide

•There were 13,508 people living with HIV/AIDS in South Carolina by the end of 2005.

•560 people tested positive for HIV/AIDS statewide in 2005, compared with 832 in 1995.

Locally

•4,156 people were tested for HIV in Charleston last year. Of those, 51 tested positive, about half as many as a decade ago.

•Berkeley and Dorchester had a combined 1,831 HIV tests, but accounted for less than 1.2 percent of the positive tests statewide, compared with more than 3 percent in 1995.

Source: UNAIDS, SCDHEC

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Our governmental officials need to be held accountable and the following questions answered: 1. Why after twenty-five years has there never been any epidemiology studies been performed to scientifically show what really causes AIDS? 2. Why did Robert Gallo only find HIV in 40% of AIDS and not the 100% that is required by Koch's Postulates, the golden rules of medicine? 3. Why is HIV not in the fluids or the blood of anyone? Second violation of Koch's Postulates. 4. Why have all the chimpanzees that were injected with HIV never developed AIDS? This is the third violation of Koch's Postulates. 5. Why hasn't the HIV Antibody Test been validated? There is no control study that proves what percentage of people testing HIV-Postive have been confirmed to have active HIV virus in their blood by a viral isolation culture and what percentage of people testing HIV-Negative have been confirmed not to have active HIV in their blood? 6. Why did the CDC make an arbitrary decision in 1987 that a positive HIV Antibody Test result equates to current infection? There is no scientific basis for this. 7. Why are there three different ways of interpreting the test results, the HIV Western Blot, CDC standard and the Red Cross standard? 8. Why does Great Britain and other countries refuse to use the Western Blot Test? 9. Why does the HIV viral load test use "probes" and "primers" based on the same invalidated, non-specific proteins that are used in the HIV Antibody Test? This is in the insert for the viral load test, "not intended to be used as a screening test for HIV or to confirm HIV infection." 10. Why have HIV-Negative persons been found to have high viral loads? This poses a serious question to the accuracy of this test. 11. Why can an American walk across the border to Canada and no longer have AIDS? Shouldn't a life-threatening disease have the same criteria all over the world? 12. Why aren't the protiens in the HIV Antibody Test unique or specific to only HIV? Other antibodies that one has accumulated may cause a false positive. In fact, over seventy conditions have beeen documented to do so. This is in the insert of the ELISA Antibody Test, "there is no recognized standard of establishing the presence of antibodies to HIV-1 or HIV-2 in human blood." 13. Why in the U.S. are most of the actual, new AIDS cases ( approximately 14,000/year) mainly in the male population? New military recruits of HIV-Positives equals 50% male to 50% female but the AIDS cases does not equal this. 14. Why are toxic drugs still being given for an unproven virus? Liver failure from the side effects of the antiretroviral medications is the number one cause of death for AIDS patients; liver failure is not one of the 30, AIDS-defining diseases. These are important questions that need to be addressd because every 15 minutes someone is diagnosed HIV-Positive in this country and 100 persons die each day from the side effects of these drugs. We cannot afford not be right in our theories. Would you trust your life to these tests?

Posted by Noreen Martin on June 26, 2007 at 8:43 AM | Report this comment

People need to know that our genome contains 8% retrovirus and these tend to come out when we have autoimmune diseases, cancer or just plain everyday illnesses. The viral load test will pick up the reverse transcriptase from our own retroviruses and the HIV antibody test picks up all sorts of cell surface proteins. It's all very dodgy science. The worst thing is that AIDS in Africa is extrapolated from HIV maternity testing of pregnant women over there. One of our retroviruses called HERV-W was found in 2000 to be necessary for fetal development and attaching the fetus to the placenta so there's a huge rise in our own retroviruses if we get pregnant. Hence all the African mums look like they have HIV when they are merely growing babies. It's far more shocking when you realise that they are being conned into taking highly toxic antiretrovirals like AZT which are actually DNA chain analogues, these drugs trick DNA into breaking apart. This then causes mutations, cancers and nerve damage in the kids. That's why I'm here.

Posted by Cal Crilly on June 13, 2007 at 1:42 AM | Report this comment

MySpace.com/TheHIVIndustryExposed

Posted by FIRSTBLOOD on June 12, 2007 at 6:40 AM | Report this comment

oops.. MySpace.com/HIVisaLIE

Posted by FIRSTBLOOD on January 17, 2007 at 7:20 AM | Report this comment

I found this article interesting it penetrated the public eye and we need more of it. I am not quite sure of Noreens's Dissidence however the fact that she seems to be doing well and on the surface has denounced the great HIV Myth. There were some thing's stated in this article that weren't confirmed by the Author in regards to the "Desperate AID$ Truther's" and other issues as well. 1) T-cell(CD4 Helper cells) Counts are usually Only done in a Tri-Monthly Period. In some cases the local HIV Clinic may do them Bi Monthly if there is reason to believe the person is "Spewing" with HIV and Sick. T-cells actually go up and down daily so the counts cannot be Accurate or even Specific TO HIV Infection only 4 Times a Year. 2) We all know that Retroviruses are not even our enemy so Anti-Retrovirals is a Misnomer. 3)If a Doctor is "Begging" a Patient to take any Pharmeceutical get his or her Credentials right away and run as fast as you can! 4)The Biggest Conspiracy Theory ever..is the One where People say "there are No Conspiracy Theories". 5)HIV "The PROBABLE Cause of AIDS" 100,000 or more papers and Still No Proof anywhere in the world. just a hypthesizes "connection" 6)The Scientific Evidence is Overwhelming? or Contradicting? The Medical Journals have no written proofs..who are these these HIV Scientists who have claimed the Nobel Prize for this Over whelming Evidence?Maybe he lives on the Moon? 7)Dr Gallo is usually dismissed as "OLD NEWS" because he got into trouble twice..however Dr Montagnier is lifted on a High Horse by the HIV Industry although Montagnier claims he and Gallo never even Purified the so-called "stolen AIDS Virus". 8)Christine's Daughter Never had an HIV Test. How criminal can the US Government be to allow the HIV Industry to just "Diagnose" people however they feel? if HIV causes AIDS then the HIV Industry must have proof that a human carries the virus and then diagnose someone with AIDS or an AIDS-illness. We all know this is the same criteria for Africa..the Bangui definition. 9)Nancy Padian Refutes her arguments because of the "Desperation" the AIDS Truther's website..John Moore the defeated HIV Apologist run's from the truth than his website actually reveals. according to the aidstruth website John Moore claims to stop all Denialsts and confront them in the media but when Challenged by Rethinking Scientists against the HIV Hypothesis his ability to to debate has him in a play pin of toys.. A Challenge from the Perth Group to Moore had this to say about Dr Nancy Padian: *John Moore* Nancy Padian’s paper: " Nancy Padian of UCSF publishes a classic study on heterosexual HIV transmission in 1997. ... AIDS denialists though conclude that the Padian paper proves that HIV is not heterosexually transmitted and contradicts the author’s own conclusions and to the social science literature. ... Nancy Padian is here today, or said she was going to be here today, and she can speak to this she’s here and she can speak to this, how her own paper is being abused and twisted.* *The PERTH GROUP* "This year, the following correspondence was conducted with Professor Padian: ~As far as I can judge, your data does not prove that HIV is heterosexually transmitted. Am I wrong in my interpretation? If so, would you please give me some details why I am wrong.~ *Professor Padian’s* response was: "Yes you are wrong. Read the papers. The discussion in very thorough in each." The follow up correspondence was: "In your publications, you repeatedly pointed out that the data from cross-sectional studies are not reliable. In your 1997 prospective study you "observed no seroconversions...". In your discussion, you also pointed out that "No transmission occurred among the 25 percent of couples who did not use condoms consistently at their last follow-up nor among the 47 couples who intermittently practiced unsafe sex during the entire duration of follow-up." This is the information which led me to come to the conclusion which you have stated is wrong. I would be grateful if you would tell me what information I am missing." ((((((Professor Padian did not respond.))))))) http://www.rethinkingaids.com/Challenges/Moore-Perth.html While Many Sit back eating their Buttered Popcorn we all can't wait until the day the HIV Industry crumbles like a 700 foot Iceberg.. hopefully into the bottom of the Sea. Tomás Brewster Sarasota Florida www.MySace.com.HIVisaLIE

Posted by FIRSTBLOOD on January 17, 2007 at 7:14 AM | Report this comment

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