Hey IDZP1954 ... I absolultely agree with most of what you've said. However, it's very important to clarify that our form of government is NOT a Democracy. This is very very important because pure Democracy is very dangerous! Our form of government is a Constitutional Republic in which our Constitution allows for the freedom of speech. Most people have been programmed to believe that we have a pure Democracy and that is one of biggest reasons we've been heading down the wrong path for a long time. Check out this video it's very educational ....> http://youtu.be/DioQooFIcgE And at every opportunity share this with people. In a pure Democracy we will allow ourselves to be lead right into an Oligarchy... and we are well on our way.
Yes, that's about right Mat. Partly because I believe that you and the Unions that you support forget that it is a Free Country and you want to force free people and private free businesses to do what you'd like them to do...taking away their freedoms and destroying the jobs that other people would gladly do, and do very well, without complaint.
Mostly it's because I have been a part of, and have seen the Thuggery that your Unions will resort to in order to get your "point" across. I have witnessed a man who was not a part of a company that your Unions were picketing, get pulled out of his truck and beaten because he had to cross your picket lines to get to another place of business. I witnessed my own father go to assist this poor guy and end up having to fight his way out of it. I have been on job sites where Union Thugs have threatened bodily injury and the use of weapons if we did not leave "their" union building. I have seen Union thugs refuse to do anything except the specific task that their Union paperwork designates that they do, even though a production line will come to a halt without their help. I have seen the threats that in order to gain employment to a place that an applicant MUST allow Union Dues to be taken from his hard earned pay or he will not get the job. I have seen lazy, un-productive workers keep their jobs just because there are too many Union rules and layers of protection for their workers and the Unions always, always, take the side of those workers no matter how it affects the success of that business. And I have many many more examples of the Thuggery that Unions will and have resorted to in order to get what they demand.
So, as long as you are demanding these things and defending actions like this crowd getting in the face of an Elected Official in another attempt at intimidation ...yes I will refer to you as Union Thugs.
No Mat! You've got it all wrong. The first thing you and your union groups need to do is get it out of your head that ALL business owners are a part of this Evil group who holds all the keys to your success. Sure there are some who don't do the things we would expect them to do for their employees. We live in a FREE country, where you can leave your job if your unhappy and find another one that you enjoy better, become self-employed in a trade, OR you can start your own business and determine your own income, etc. For the most part you can also stick with these larger companies work hard, find a skill or talent that is valuable to them, make sure that your returning to them more value than it takes to keep you on as an employee... and they will pay you a fair wage.
I moved here from an area where almost every job was a Union Job, and most are either currently un-employed or are now working in non-union jobs. And a fair wage does not include something like for instance 19 dollars an hour to sweep the floors (this is not an exaggeration), and demand that this is the only job that you will do for that 19 dollars an hour. You can also not demand 25 dollars an hour to push a button or move a part into place and screw the bolts on to hold it there. You also can not demand that you not be fired for not working as hard as you need to or make it almost impossible to do so. And these are just a few of the ridiculous demands that the unions attempt to impose on businesses trying to compete in a real world where consumers want to pay or can only afford those things that cost the least to make.
The bottom line for you Union thugs is that, we live in a FREE COUNTRY, and in this country most of those who start businesses are in it for only a couple of reasons. One is to provide a product or service that other people want and can afford at some level to buy.... and the other is to MAKE THEMSELVES MONEY!!!
Sure, for many it feels good to be able to do other things like put people to work and help them afford a living for their family, future, etc. but when it boils down to the bottom line it is purely about making money to stay in business and provide for themselves and their families. Whatever the extent of the extravagant a lifestyle they want to have for themselves is not for you and I determine.... it's a FREE COUNTRY!
There are many other factors involved in the Living Wage issue and the profits of companies to discuss here, but if a company or business owner determines that they cannot make enough money producing a product in the United States, whether that be because it makes their product un-competitive price wise or just because they want to line their pockets... that's their choice... remember we are a FREE COUNTRY! And because it's a free country you have the choice to continue working hard at attempting to tell FREE Americans who own businesses in a FREE Country what they can and cannot do with their businesses, or you can enjoy the Freedoms that we have and determine to make your own way regardless of the challenges and obstacles.
Mat Catastrophe - "Yes. Hopefully soon the middle class will join the poor and the working class in challenging the wealthy's monopoly on money and power."
Sounds like you'd really enjoy living someplace like Venezuela, China, or Russia.
If you really want to do something about what you think are the injustices of the wealthy, etc. Go out and work as hard as they have, risk what they have risked, let your life be consumed with making money and building your business the way they have, worry about, and have as many sleepless nights as they have during their journey to where they are at, and then you be the "Better Man" and right their wrongs by being whatever it is that you think they are not.
See the problem with people like you is that you have never had to do what they've done. You haven't had to worry about millions or multi millions of dollars that you've put out on the line in hopes that it will pay off and you'll sell a product or service that will bring back in at least those multi millions that you've put out there to purchase your materials, etc., much less pay your employees, the taxes, and everything else you have to pay before you earn a penny for yourself.
We have all become so self absorbed as Americans that we don't look beyond ourselves to see and appreciate what other do, have done, and have gone through to get what they have. And there is nothing holding you -Mat Catastrophe- from doing what those Evil Rich folk have done to get where they're at ....except yourself. So stop complaining about what they have and aren't giving you....and go get it for yourself!!!
"I personnally work for a several hundred million dollar a year company that says they would shut down or move overseas before being forced to unionize."
And that's illegal. End of story. >>> Sure it is Mat Catastrophe... Ha Ha ... and you know that no one has "officially" told me that of course.
You don't think the people who have put their blood, sweat, tears, and risked everything they have to build these businesses aren't smart enough to slowly move the jobs overseas or to other non-union states, in ways that you nor anyone else would ever be able to prove that they had done it? Hundreds...possibly thousands of companies have already done so. That's as ignorant as some people thinking that raising taxes on the rich actually punishes the rich, or makes them pay more. All that raising taxes on the rich does is encourage them to be more creative in finding ways to be more profitable, which usually translates into higher costs for those purchasing whatever they are selling. So some "people" and some in the govmt think their getting more revenue from raising taxes on the rich, all the while those who are consuming the goods or services from the wealthy (companies) are asking for more money from the govmt because the cost of buying the goods those companies are selling is going up.
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