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Re: “Talking with a historian about Charleston's episode of "Drunk History"

The Fact Is That These Clowns Are Destroying Charleston And Supporting Huge Media Monopolies That Are Enslaving Every American Taxpayer With Brainwashing. You Sir Are Brainwashed.

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Posted by zee on July 22, 2014 at 5:01 PM

Re: “Talking with a historian about Charleston's episode of "Drunk History"

Who Cares About Johnny Knoxville Or Any Of These TV Clowns?

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Posted by zee on July 22, 2014 at 4:58 PM

Re: “A chat with "Drunk History" creator Derek Waters inside a van outside The Royal American

Is that an order from a native or a transplant?

There are only two lenses with which we can view the world and goddammit one of them is going to be proven, here and now, as the only valid one worthy of any respect and consideration!

Victory will be as shocking as the earthquake of 1886 which I know about because I read about it in a book that was brought to life through the context of the oral history of people who had relatives that lived through it.

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Posted by HappyPessimist on July 22, 2014 at 3:11 PM
Posted by Pronghorn on July 22, 2014 at 3:02 PM

Re: “A chat with "Drunk History" creator Derek Waters inside a van outside The Royal American

Jaxx, your overreaction to some relatively innocuous internet hyperbole is saying as much about you as his overstatement says about him. At this point I wouldn't want to hear a story from you, either, and that's not how the oral history you're putting such an outsized value on is supposed to work.

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Posted by HappyPessimist on July 22, 2014 at 2:15 PM

Re: “A chat with "Drunk History" creator Derek Waters inside a van outside The Royal American

I don't know if I'd go so far as to say it's stronger here haha. New Englanders can be downright vicious about the native vs local vs transplant vs tourist thing as opposed to the kind of pretentious irritability you find here.

Course then again I'm older now and less inclined to broadcast my "outsider" status as if that made ME part of an exclusive club of my own.

We all want to be special and belong to something, after all. I guess I've lived in enough places for long enough to see that someone wanting respect for the "accomplishment" of having been born somewhere nice is always going to be disappointed with what he gets - while worldliness never beats nativism in an argument over who is perceived to have experience and knowledge, as well.

Posted by HappyPessimist on July 22, 2014 at 1:52 PM

Re: “A chat with "Drunk History" creator Derek Waters inside a van outside The Royal American

Are you seriously calling me out for "name calling" when I initially posted 6 benign words and you called me a bitter asshole and ignorant? That's what led to my second post directed at you. And what you've done is confirm my assumption.

You've met enough locals in 5 years to come to a conclusion about most of them? My god do you not see yourself for what you are?

Why would I share a story with an asshole like you? And to my point, why would anyone? Any native, of any place, wouldn't give a presumptuous dick like you the time of day. You could learn so much more about any locale's history by engaging it's natives in constructive conversation rather than assuming you know more than everyone because you read the book or took a tour.

Your loss.

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Posted by Jaxx on July 22, 2014 at 1:46 PM

Re: “A chat with "Drunk History" creator Derek Waters inside a van outside The Royal American

"If it makes any difference, this pride of place stuff isn't specific to Charleston - same arguments happen from Cape Cod to San Franscisco. It's really more about being proud to be an exclusive member of something than anything particular about that "something." It's a human impulse, and maybe if both sides can recognize that we can both just relax and enjoy Charleston for being the city both sides want to live in."

Very true, but it is stronger in Charleston. But it seems to come from a select mostly white, upper-middle class group. At least they are the most vocal. Personally, I tell people I meet that I am from Mt Pleasant, but was born and raised in WV. I pay taxes here, own a home here, and work here, so I am as local as you can get from that standpoint. I am not, however, a "native."

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Posted by brewengineer on July 22, 2014 at 1:18 PM

Re: “A chat with "Drunk History" creator Derek Waters inside a van outside The Royal American

"@Brewboy: I expected no less from you. You culled a bunch of assumptions from the 6 words I posted. Probably the same rush to judgement you use to declare yourself more knowledgeable than most Charleston natives on the subject of local history.

How many locals have you met? 100? 1000? 10,000? Do you know how many there are? What demographic are you basing your assumption? The 30 yr old you met at a Bay St Biergarten, or the 60 year old you met at the Sol Legare boat landing? What do you consider local history: what you read in a book, or stories passed down from generation to generation? How dare you make such a presumptuous assumption.

Allow me an assumption: you are a pompous dickhead, and if you think more natives don't feel the same way about you, either you don't have the balls to speak to them face to face the way you so boldly do behind a keyboard, or they're just too polite to tell you to fuck off. I'm not.

Fuck off."


Jaxx, thanks for the angry rant. Your language and name calling really displays a special level of intelligence. I am sure you know me so very well, since you have never met me. I have lived here 5 years, and met enough locals to know that most don't care about history. And history is a combination of many different things, all of which can be relevant to the topic. It isn't about just reading books, or just telling stories. It is all about getting out and experiencing the different historical sites and talking to historians and people who have lived through many different events. Researching historical battles, significant political changes, and even major weather events helps one understand an area. I currently live near a Gullah area, and I can guarantee most of the people over age 50 in that neighborhood have more knowledge of Charleston's past than your average so-called self-proclaimed Charleston native. So how about you, Mr. Jaxx? Please tell us all your passed down stories from your multiple generations in this area. You seem to angrily defend the honor of all native Charlestonians (also funny, as most self-proclaimed Charleston natives have never lived in Charleston city), so back that up. Tell me a story that I haven't heard, because that is a far better defense than name calling and vague assumptions.

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Posted by brewengineer on July 22, 2014 at 1:13 PM

Re: “A chat with "Drunk History" creator Derek Waters inside a van outside The Royal American

"brewengineer - it's cool that you know a lot about Charleston's history. It's about the attitude that one projects, though. Is it polite and respectful?"

It wasn't attitude. It was a simple observation. There is a smug sense of localism that is often projected from a select few. It was shown here in the comments made by the Oldman. It was an assumption that most people in bars around town aren't from here, and thus do not know the history of the area. My point was that I actually have interest in the history, along with a few other transplants I know. I have met a few locals that are interested in knowing the city's past, but they are rare. This isn't a phenomenon specific to Charleston. When I lived in Richmond, it was the same scenario. Most people don't care about history, so it is silly to assume A. That natives will know a lot about their city's past or B. That transplants will know very little about the areas history.

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Posted by brewengineer on July 22, 2014 at 12:54 PM

Re: “A chat with "Drunk History" creator Derek Waters inside a van outside The Royal American

And then the fight between the native and the local-but-not-for-as-long spilled out through the swinging doors into the 18th/19th/20th/21st century street of every American city with any kind of history everywhere.

If it makes any difference, this pride of place stuff isn't specific to Charleston - same arguments happen from Cape Cod to San Franscisco. It's really more about being proud to be an exclusive member of something than anything particular about that "something." It's a human impulse, and maybe if both sides can recognize that we can both just relax and enjoy Charleston for being the city both sides want to live in.

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Posted by HappyPessimist on July 22, 2014 at 12:01 PM

Re: “A chat with "Drunk History" creator Derek Waters inside a van outside The Royal American

@Mat: I expected more from you. I wasn't trying to pass off any fanciful notions or corner you into retreating, I was genuinely interested in how you'd justify your argument. Your response wasn't disappointingly weak, it was nonexistent. Bunch of words that said nothing. I'll chalk it up to the hour(1:30am) and give you a do-over.


@Brewboy: I expected no less from you. You culled a bunch of assumptions from the 6 words I posted. Probably the same rush to judgement you use to declare yourself more knowledgeable than most Charleston natives on the subject of local history.

How many locals have you met? 100? 1000? 10,000? Do you know how many there are? What demographic are you basing your assumption? The 30 yr old you met at a Bay St Biergarten, or the 60 year old you met at the Sol Legare boat landing? What do you consider local history: what you read in a book, or stories passed down from generation to generation? How dare you make such a presumptuous assumption.

Allow me an assumption: you are a pompous dickhead, and if you think more natives don't feel the same way about you, either you don't have the balls to speak to them face to face the way you so boldly do behind a keyboard, or they're just too polite to tell you to fuck off. I'm not.

Fuck off.

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Posted by Jaxx on July 22, 2014 at 11:37 AM

Re: “A chat with "Drunk History" creator Derek Waters inside a van outside The Royal American

I get what you're saying, Cid, and I understand where it comes from - pride of place is a real thing and you want to claim some ownership of that. But the thing is that brew isn't a tourist and Charleston doesn't "belong" to people on a seniority basis.

At what point does he become local? He lives here now... why exactly does he owe "respect" to someone who, by luck of birth, didn't have to go through the same trouble to get here? Is one destined to be deferential to the born-'n'-raised for their entire lives unless they move back to whatever other town they decided to get out of?

And we're not talking about an aboriginal or endangered culture. That's a straw man argument - there are multiple and obvious differences between the effects of immigration and assimilation on a mainstream dominant culture and the wholesale destruction of a marginalized one.

Charleston's a port city, and it's always been a "transplant" destination. The culture of this town has always been amorphous and it's always been largely determined by people from "off." Advances in travel over the past few centuries have, of course, made that more common - but Charleston has never been a generational American heartland kind of town. In a significant way, the transplant looking for warmer climes or a better life in a city with more opportunity is about as quintessentially "Charlestonian" as the descendent of an 18th century plantation owner.

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Posted by HappyPessimist on July 22, 2014 at 11:01 AM

Re: “A chat with "Drunk History" creator Derek Waters inside a van outside The Royal American

brewengineer - it's cool that you know a lot about Charleston's history. It's about the attitude that one projects, though. Is it polite and respectful?

"a few of us transplants know more about Charleston history than most of the natives"

Pretend you live in Paris or London or Hong Kong or Prague or Mumbai and you said that. UGLY, ARROGANT AMERICAN would be the *nicest* response that you would get, I assure you. The situation is no different here, there's no need to phrase it as you being superior and antagonistic. That sort of thing doesn't go over well anywhere, ever.

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Posted by Cid95 on July 22, 2014 at 10:02 AM

Re: “A chat with "Drunk History" creator Derek Waters inside a van outside The Royal American

"And you wonder why there's animosity."

Because you don't like people born elsewhere to learn about the history of your area? That makes you sounds like a bitter asshole. Or do you doubt that a good majority of native Charlestonians know very little about the history of the area. I don't have any problem with natives taking pride in being born here. Let's just not be so ignorant as to assume everyone born here gives a shit about the history or culture. Luckily, most natives I have met don't share your animosity, Mr. Jaxx.

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Posted by brewengineer on July 22, 2014 at 7:21 AM

Re: “A chat with "Drunk History" creator Derek Waters inside a van outside The Royal American

"Can you have some connection to your past? Sure, why not?" Wait, I thought it was terrible? Asinine?

Thanks for changing your mind and recognizing the obvious global reality that everyone, everywhere has some connection to their past and their culture (how difficult it may be to rationally define). Which is why people notice and care where other people are from. In bars. While sober or drunk. Which brings us back on topic.

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Posted by Cid95 on July 22, 2014 at 5:17 AM

Re: “A chat with "Drunk History" creator Derek Waters inside a van outside The Royal American

"Would you say the same thing to Native Americans or members of the Gullah/Geechie corridor on the sea islands?"

Yes. All cultures are dead or soon to be dead.

"And Jaxx scores a clean goal right past the goalkeeper's head."

Not unless you thought I'd say "no" to that, he didn't.

You see, the irony is that Jaxx is trying to pass off some fanciful notion that it's OK for white Charleston to be scared that their culture is dying because the Native Americans or Gullah/Geechee have been facing that problem for decades (or longer). The problem is that A) Jaxx probably didn't care a damn for those cultures until s/he (sorry, I can't be bothered to suss out your gender from your name tonight) figured s/he could pull a fast one on me and corner me into either retreating from my comment or offending those two communities.

Which brings us to B), in that those communities are in decline, in a way that (sorry, white people) white culture is not. For one thing, they weren't terribly monolithic when they were in full bloom and, for another, they had the crushing audacity to attempt to exist beside white "Charleston" culture in the first place.

But the simple facts remain: you guys can argue about your special little culture all you want to, but you need to get on board and be consistent. You either love "Charleston" or "The South" or "America", but you can't really love all 3 at once because they hold a good number of inconsistent beliefs in them. Well, at least the first two do with the third, but there's still a good bit of "Charleston" which doesn't fit in with other areas of "the South". But I probably digress.

Whether through force, violence, conquest, or just plain entropy, cultures must end. If they don't end, new things can't begin. Can you have some connection to your past? Sure, why not? Should it inform your every single action in the present? Nope.

Otherwise, we might as well say it's OK to sacrifice babies again - or throw virgins in volcanoes - or whatever other atavistic cultural thing you can come up with to appease the gods when things aren't going well....

Like this thread, which is horribly, horribly off-topic.

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Posted by mat catastrophe on July 22, 2014 at 1:31 AM

Re: “A chat with "Drunk History" creator Derek Waters inside a van outside The Royal American

And Jaxx scores a clean goal right past the goalkeeper's head.

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Posted by Cid95 on July 22, 2014 at 1:29 AM

Re: “A chat with "Drunk History" creator Derek Waters inside a van outside The Royal American

"It's just as terrible an idea as clinging to your "nationality" or your "heritage" or any number of other things"

Would you say the same thing to Native Americans or members of the Gullah/Geechie corridor on the sea islands?

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Posted by Jaxx on July 21, 2014 at 7:53 PM

Re: “A chat with "Drunk History" creator Derek Waters inside a van outside The Royal American

"a few of us transplants know more about Charleston history than most of the natives"

And you wonder why there's animosity.

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Posted by Jaxx on July 21, 2014 at 7:33 PM
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