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Re: “How one officer's aggression led to the death of 19-year-old Denzel Curnell

I see alot of what if's here in this conversation, is it better to error on the side of caution yes, no one is discussing Curnells state of mind. He has a record of being sucidial that has been established, people want to cast dispesion because of his race maybe the long and short of it he was mentaly unstable. What sane person would not yeild to a police officer if they had nothing to hide no one I know. I don't think color is an issuse here of course the race baiters want to make it an issuse to line their pockets. BTW they gentleman who stated "There are kids wearing hoodies everywhere! I could go take a drive downtown, at noon today" I was downtown for 2 hours toady didn't see one hoodie, go figure.

2 of 2 people like this.
Posted by puterputzs on July 17, 2014 at 12:53 PM

Re: “The more mags that proclaim Charleston is the best, the more tourists that flock to our streets

You Think The Whore Of Babylon (The Us Economy) Will Not Pillage This Place For Every Bit O Resource It Can Take? We Will Be Lucky If This At-will-Employer State Will Allow Us To Keep Our Historic Natural LandScape Only to Put Us All In Apartments. Every MaN, Woman, And Child Will Be Sold Into Corporate Slavery OR Imprisoned As Homeless Miscreants That Don't Have Enough Of A Failing Currency. Charleston! The Last Citadel Of The Western World To Fall To A New World Of Capitalism!

3 of 10 people like this.
Posted by zee on July 17, 2014 at 12:46 PM

Re: “TONIGHT: Mayor Riley, city officials want your input on midnight bar closing ordinance

Now people just need to show up to speak out against this foolishness!

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Posted by nofaith on July 17, 2014 at 12:01 PM

Re: “McConnell must do a lot to earn the respect of CofC students

Willful ignorance? You claimed to have read the prospectus for a new president and it had the list of qualifications. McConnell hit pretty much all of them. If you can't see that it is just lack of reading comprehension and dislike of the man. Who knows if the people who performed the search have any kind of clue as to what political skills and connections McConnell had. I doubt it seriously that they did but being able to work with a dysfunctional state legislature is a very important part of that position. For business as usual politics, I would be happy as a clam if Haley was out of the Gov's office and Hugh Leatherman was not the most powerful man in the state government.

As for your investment strategy, based on the people who voted for the worst president we have ever had in last election there are (at most) 65,915,796 who desperately need the tin foil hats. And given the fact that they will expect government to pay for them instead of paying themselves they will sell for a lot more money so you might be on to something. But, to keep your moral compass any money you make at that, or anything else in life, you should give to the government.

Without voter ID proving voter fraud is practically impossible, which is exactly why the left is so against it. But there are many things that are at least irregularities but he won, it is over with so we have to get over it (see how that works.) Now it is just a matter of preventing him from doing as much stupid stuff as he wants to do as possible. Since enacting the 2012 Military Voter Protection Act military absentee votes, which typically vote moderate to conservative, dropped by around 50%. In contrast, areas that now require voter ID have had higher participation, particularly among minorities.

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Posted by nofaith on July 17, 2014 at 11:59 AM

Re: “New King St. restaurant Union Provisions opens tonight at 5 p.m.

"Awful do realize where you are, right??"

A rather liberal city in the middle of a red state, visited by mostly blue state tourists. I am sure it will be fine.

4 of 7 people like this.
Posted by brewengineer on July 17, 2014 at 11:54 AM

Re: “McConnell must do a lot to earn the respect of CofC students

But as far as your substance goes - McConnell was the most attractive candidate to the Board of Trustees, but the only qualification was that he was McConnell. If you can't see that you're just being willfully ignorant. The school spent a hundred thousand dollars paying people who's only JOB it was to evaluate qualifications and he didn't even make the top 10 list. He gets moved onto the list and then suddenly and mysteriously all the other serious contenders drop out. And yet even still he gets destroyed in the public interviews and Q&A sessions by the token competitors. Unanimous winner! Perfect choice!

The legislature even admitted that they put pressure on the BoT so I really don't understand the effort to pretend that he got in legitimately on his qualifications to run a college.

We can pretend to not hear the music playing but the reality is that the process was undermined for political favor. Yeah, your guy won - woohoo Republicans do a victory dance. Now can we address the "business as usual" crony politics in this state?

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Posted by HappyPessimist on July 17, 2014 at 11:32 AM

Re: “How one officer's aggression led to the death of 19-year-old Denzel Curnell


A cop is always a cop. He was in a police uniform, driving a police car, and brandishing a police issued weapon. Hence he was a cop.

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Posted by chrishaire on July 17, 2014 at 11:31 AM

Re: “Denzel Curnell shooting: Read the officer’s full account

I tend to agree with a lot of that. I'm also not trying to trample on someone's grave and blame anyone for his death, and wish he hadn't made the decision he did. I take issue with some of the irresponsible reporting and accusations that were made before the report was released. Even now an apartment complex has a right to hire a security officer. It is also illegal in many western countries to conceal your face in public. Wearing a hood can be considered suspicious in a high crime area in the summer because it does have the advantage of not being recognized or recorded on a security camera, for example, so it's reasonable to approach someone acting strangely, lurking around to simply see their face and talk with them. If someone looks like a deer in the headlights causes more suspicion. I don't see this as racial profiling for the same reason someone wearing a trench coat would also elicit concern. After the Boston Bombing policies were put in place to limit backpacks, so one can be expected to be searched if they want to carry a pack into what is otherwise a public area. But this is probably becoming a waste of time for me and it's better to focus on other constructive approaches that can make a difference in preventing situations like this in the first place.

Posted by John Cecil on July 17, 2014 at 11:30 AM

Re: “McConnell must do a lot to earn the respect of CofC students

LOL I hadn't heard the voter suppression by Democrats thing yet.

Heard the voter fraud thing a few times. But I think you have to pick between "ineptness and failure" and "genius mastermind capable of orchestrating a grand conspiracy to generate 10s of millions of fraudulent votes and then keeping it secret from everybody except his... enemies."

Forget gold, aluminum has got to be the smart investment with all these tinfoil hats.

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Posted by HappyPessimist on July 17, 2014 at 11:22 AM

Re: “How one officer's aggression led to the death of 19-year-old Denzel Curnell

Sure HOBYCAT, maybe Curnell was on his way to kill someone. Also maybe, he found his stepfather's gun and was on his way to return it. He could have taken it to kill himself and realized he made a bad decision and was walking it off. Maybe maybe maybe.

For sure, he can know that he had a gun that wasn't his and that he did not intend to use it against the officer. We know this because he used it on himself in a violent confrontation that was instigated by the police.

There are kids wearing hoodies everywhere! I could go take a drive downtown, at noon today, in the middle of July, and not have to look hard for "suspicious" individuals. Are the police threatening all of them with deadly force if they refuse to comply with requests that they are not legally required to comply with? The answer is likely "more than you should be comfortable with in a 'free' society."

I'm not arguing for public execution of the officer but if it doesn't bother you that this kid got randomly stopped on the street for no reason except wearing the same hoodie everybody else freaking wears and then had a gun pointed at him because he didn't thank the officer for the privilege, then we're already pretty far down a disconcerting road.

1 of 8 people like this.
Posted by HappyPessimist on July 17, 2014 at 11:09 AM

Re: “McConnell must do a lot to earn the respect of CofC students

But Obama has five years of consistent ineptness and failure. Complaining about someone's performance is a whole different ball game from crying over the fact that you lost. And, there is mounting evidence that Obama won through various voter fraud and suppression efforts in 2012. McConnell has barely gotten started. McConnell got selected because he has decades of political networking that made him the most attractive candidate to the board of trustees, and he fit the qualifications they were asking for. As I have said before, even if he exceeds what goals his opponents are saying he will never reach and they will still be making up bullshit and whining about him. And, to keep it all in perspective, he is the president of a relatively small college in a relatively small city in a state that liberals cry about having to live in.

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Posted by nofaith on July 17, 2014 at 10:54 AM

Re: “Denzel Curnell shooting: Read the officer’s full account

It's not about having it both ways. What I am trying to say is that there is no clear "way." It's a sad tragedy that's easy to second guess from any number of angles.

I absolutely agree that he was a potential threat to himself or others, which we know as a fact now because he shot himself in a violent confrontation instigated by the police and now he's dead. Problem solved?

That's why it's worth examining why this situation happened the way it did. Obviously, a major factor was that the kid had issues and was carrying a gun. But in my opinion the officer was also over aggressive in his approach, according to his report, and that pretty clearly escalated the situation unnecessarily. As much as we want to say "the cop was right!!! he had a gun!!!" we also have to say "the cop was wrong!!! he wasn't going to shoot at him!!!"

But I don't see the value in trying to assign blame of win some kind of contest. "Why this happened" is not important to establish, at this point, for punishment reasons. I don't want to destroy the officer's career or send him to jail as much as I don't want to trample over this kid's grave.

I would like to see police not feel like it's OK to point guns at citizens not observed to be in violation of any laws. I would also like to see it more difficult for mentally unwell people to get firearms and easier for them to get the help they need. I don't think I'm being unreasonable wanting all of those things.

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Posted by HappyPessimist on July 17, 2014 at 10:25 AM

Re: “How one officer's aggression led to the death of 19-year-old Denzel Curnell

At the time of this incident the officer was working an off-duty assignment. That means the officer was an employee of Bridgeview Village Apartments (formerly Bayside Manor) and as such was obligated by their policies to weed out those who don’t belong in that neighborhood. That is what he was doing when he noticed Curnell behaving suspiciously. He is not violating anybody's rights by asking to speak with them. Then when Curnell continued to not speak with him and keep his hand hidden, the officer had every right to feel uncomfortable and ask to see his hands. Wouldn't you?
Here’s something to think about – it could be possible Curnell was carrying that firearm to take out someone he perceived as a problem. Maybe the officer saved someone else’s life, or lives, by trying to have a chat with Curnell.

Chief Mullen pointed out that the officer was doing his job – the job Dot Scott demanded be done – and checking out suspicious folks in one of Charleston’s high crime, high violence, drug infested housing projects. If the officer had just sat and waited for Curnell to actually have used that gun - whether on someone else or even on himself, and sat back in his vehicle and done nothing there would have been outrage! So law enforcement is damned if you do, damned if you don't. They are asked to step up and protect these neighborhoods but condemned when they try to do their job and stop violence before it escalates.

You know, with all this media attention being given to this case the media has managed to skirt the issue of violence in the black community yet again. It seems there was a home invasion this past weekend in which, a young black female, mother and soon to be bride was killed when she was shot multiple times. A male in the home was also wounded by gunfire. Has the NAACP spoken out about that? Nope. Have they or the media spoken out about the murder of black convict Samuel Coardes by black drug dealer Tyrone Penn? Nope. Just two of way too many examples of the black on black violence in this city.

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Posted by HOBYCAT on July 17, 2014 at 10:09 AM

Re: “McConnell must do a lot to earn the respect of CofC students

Let's all weep for the underrepresented abusive privileged. Cry for those of us who weren't born with an ethical compass. If we at the top had to play by the same rules as everybody else, how would we stay at the top?

You're in the wrong thread freefirezone. This article is about someone who skirted the rules and made a joke of a selection process being expected to prove he deserves the job now that he has it, since he didn't prove it before he got it.

The "help, help, my bigotry is being repressed" thread is through another door.

8 of 10 people like this.
Posted by HappyPessimist on July 17, 2014 at 10:05 AM

Re: “How one officer's aggression led to the death of 19-year-old Denzel Curnell

Appreciate your response, Chris. There was a good segment on NPR this week on the merits of the stop and frisk laws that were abandoned in NY. I wonder if there is a way to protect 4th and 5th amendments while allowing reasonable interactions between police and civilians? It really depends on the end game and what the intentions are of the individual officer. Is it ok for an officer to detain someone for loitering or not walking in a straight line? At what point does someone's behavior rise to the level of reasonable suspicion of being a danger to themselves or someone else? What if someone is wearing a trench coat in the July in Charleston on their way into movie theatre, and he had been pacing back and forth up and down the street? Would it then be ok to approach them and request they keep their hands out of their pockets if they are appear extremely alarmed? Shouldn't the police be able to use some judgement and common sense? I like to think about this, keep an open mind, and appreciate other perspectives. I think the fact he had a gun, the officers suspicions were correct, he didn't use deadly force, support a reasonable approach.

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Posted by John Cecil on July 17, 2014 at 8:55 AM

Re: “Children from same-sex couples are doing better than OK

I'm the black-Jewish son of an LGBT couple and I came out fine, along with three siblings, including an Army officer. It was never the lack of love from my family but the hate in the community that I struggled with. I have always said that I had an equal or better upbringing than kids in traditional households, because I learned that it's love, not biology, that makes a family. Now I have the science to back it up in my campaign for US Congress.

6 of 7 people like this.
Posted by Gabriel Rothblatt on July 17, 2014 at 8:53 AM

Re: “How one officer's aggression led to the death of 19-year-old Denzel Curnell


The point here is that the officer didn't witness a crime, a crime wasn't reported that he was responding to, and he didn't suspect Denzel Curnell of having committed. The 4th and 5th amendments must take precedence here in these matters. The officer had no legal right to detain Curnell — regardless of whether or not his suspicions were confirmed, which is certainly up for debate — and Curnell had ever legal right not to respond, not to pull his hand out of his pocket, and to turn around and walk away. These laws here is designed to protect us; however, it seems that the public is far to willing to give up their 4th and 5th amendment rights in the name of public safety. The most important parts of the Bill of Rights are slowly being chipped away by fear.

3 of 12 people like this.
Posted by chrishaire on July 17, 2014 at 8:35 AM

Re: “How one officer's aggression led to the death of 19-year-old Denzel Curnell

I think the facts in this case better support proactive policies of approaching individuals who are acting strange, and also support the necessity of offers taking reasonable precautions to protect themselves. The gun was reported missing by his uncle. Is this not a crime? Can a family member who has recently been suicidal have legal access to a firearm without asking permission, and carry it around at a place that he doesn't live? There is no point in charging him with a crime, I'm just wondering what the laws are. I think its illegal for someone to have a gun with a psychological disorder, and to take one that didn't belong to him and go to a place he didn't live is problematic and indicates intent to hurt himself or someone else. In the end, its very sad someone that young would take their own life.

6 of 7 people like this.
Posted by John Cecil on July 17, 2014 at 7:43 AM

Re: “How one officer's aggression led to the death of 19-year-old Denzel Curnell

So well said Chris Haire.

Until we love young black men as much as we love Ordinary oysters--this city is fucked.

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Posted by Mario Delgado on July 17, 2014 at 7:42 AM

Re: “McConnell must do a lot to earn the respect of CofC students

Here we have another literary gem from an education system that's been teaching diversity as the ultimate good for decades.

What matters most is how Little Johnny feels about the world around him. We must pamper him and manage his surroundings so that he never feels threatened. Because we've trained Little Johnny in such a manner, when he becomes an adult, he will still be Little Johnny in mind, wrapped up in his feelings. When he acts or speaks in an asinine manner, he will expect to be affirmed or at least go unchallenged. He will have expectations that one of his constitutional rights is that his feelings never be hurt - all the while being largely ignorant of the Bill of Rights.

If the recent guest opinions by Ms. Peipmeier and Ms. Sprouse are representative of the CofC campus as a whole, then Glenn McConnell is exactly what the doctor ordered. The campus could use some genuine diversity - a diversity that's not confined to race and sexual orientation of a mind-numbingly dense human resources seminar, but one that includes variation of thought.

Good luck Mr. McConnell with the politically correct CofC choir bequeathed to you.

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Posted by freefirezone on July 17, 2014 at 7:24 AM
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