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Comment Archives: Stories: News+Opinion: Guest Columnist

Re: “Why are white men turning on women?

Chris and Ron, I know right. Men should stop whining about laws that force them to raise children which are not theirs. They should quietly suck it up and hand over their paychecks. Their grievances are unimportant and should be summarily dismissed because, you know, patriarchy.

Posted by Fish Pimp on November 20, 2014 at 2:30 PM

Re: “Why are white men turning on women?

Little known fact: No creature has thinner skin than an aggrieved white man.

Posted by chrishaire on November 20, 2014 at 12:39 PM

Re: “Why are white men turning on women?

Katie-

It is not a "generalization" that women are less likely to negotiate: http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2014/04/08/300290240/why-women-dont-ask-for-more-money ... speaking of assumptions, however, what makes you think I'm white? Or that, supposing I am, that I'm of an age where I benefit from that 5% advantage (since, as I noted, there is hardly any wage gap b/w male and female millennials entering the job mkt).

As for your posted critiques of the study I cited, they don't disprove the study, they just disagree w/ it. Further, they don't provide any evidence for the conventional claim that women earn 77 cents on the dollar AFTER controlling for relevant factors. That pernicious lie is simply untrue. No, the Consad study was not exhaustive, but at present it appears to be the most comprehensive analysis of the available data.

2 of 2 people like this.
Posted by JamesFox on November 20, 2014 at 12:14 PM

Re: “Government has no place in economic development

"The problem is that if City/County/State A throws tax dollars at a company to convince them to build a new plant there and City/County/State B doesn't - the company will choose the former."

But conservatives always say the government doesn't create jobs so your scenario is moot.

0 of 1 people like this.
Posted by Ron Liberte on November 20, 2014 at 10:46 AM

Re: “Why are white men turning on women?

Why does Martin Luther King get a holiday but Bob Costas does not? Two of the greatest orators the world has ever known and of course we only honor the black one. I have millions more examples of the second-class status of white men. Let my people go!

1 of 1 people like this.
Posted by Ron Liberte on November 20, 2014 at 10:32 AM

Re: “Why are white men turning on women?

Since women want ( and deserve) equality; why aren't they lined up protesting their lack of draft cards?

4 of 5 people like this.
Posted by TROLLSLAYER on November 20, 2014 at 10:05 AM

Re: “Why are white men turning on women?

When is it going to be the white man's time? This persecution must end. We don't even have a White History Month!

2 of 3 people like this.
Posted by Ron Liberte on November 20, 2014 at 10:00 AM

Re: “Why are white men turning on women?

Women are less likely to negotiate higher salaries? Thanks for that generalization, where did that one come from? Also, ever thought that maybe more women aren't higher as engineers vs. teachers because of further sexism within those fields that keeps women from reaching those higher paid positions? That exists too.

Corporations are often filled with the men's club mentality, hence why they aren't eager to include women into their ranks.

Here are the articles I was referring to against CONSAD:

http://amptoons.com/blog/2010/11/26/how-the-consad-report-on-the-wage-gap-masks-sexism-instead-of-measuring-it/

"It's not conclusive" http://www.foxbusiness.com/economy-policy/2014/04/02/pay-gap-is-alive-and-well-and-hurting-women/

Just Google CONSAD and you'll find other materials as well.

And of course the non-existent 5% pay gap wouldn't bother you, you're not the one at the bottom. That is white male privilege at it's finest right there. If these tides turned I know a lot of you would be feeling a lot differently.

1 of 3 people like this.
Posted by Katie Thompson on November 20, 2014 at 9:49 AM

Re: “Government has no place in economic development

Government is too incompetent to help people, but we should totes entrust it to wage war, kill and imprison people.

0 of 1 people like this.
Posted by Ron Liberte on November 20, 2014 at 9:41 AM

Re: “Government has no place in economic development

Spoken like someone who's never held down a job at a for-profit before. I've done consulting for both, and if you think that there's an unusually high level of incompetence in government it's only because you haven't met enough private-sector employees. One of my first clients, the owner of the company would come in to the office drunk, curl up under her desk, and pass out until it was time to go home, and do this at least once a week. I've worked with companies that spend millions on marketing initiatives that demonstrably don't work. I've worked with companies where decisions are made based on the owner's personal tastes instead of on objective analysis, to the detriment of the company. The private sector is not losing the incompetence war to the public sector, that's for sure.

But wait - public sector incompetence must be different because we the people end up footing the bill, right? Well, no. At the end of the day, we foot the bill for incompetence public or private (the latter in the form of unemployment payments, shrinking economies, higher prices, etc.)

But back to the merits of your actual "story". I'm not going to get in to it too deep, but using a single anecdote to make a sweeping judgement is just stupid. More importantly, the land has only been in possession of the city for two years. Do you know how long it takes most large companies to build a new campus? And that's with being able to control the entire process, something that government agencies are rarely allowed to do. So in two years, they haven't developed this land - that's not great, but it's far from above average for the time it takes to roll out a massive industrial development. Hell, the suburban community across the street from me has been in development for about 8 years now. The Cigar Factory Lofts have been in development for what, 6? Developing land into a functioning, viable business area takes time. Instead, we have anti-government idiots making a lot of noise about the signs that they used? I mean, it's a little stupid, sure, but how about instead of writing a pointless bit of anti-government drivel, you actually look in to where the project stands and what's happening with it and report on, I don't know, facts?

This is getting a little long, so I'll just close with this: please stop writing on the internet. After all, it was developed by a government agency. You wouldn't want to be a hypocrite, would you? If government shouldn't develop anything, how about you put your money where your mouth is and stop using places, products, and services developed by the government?

5 of 5 people like this.
Posted by Alexandre Mouravskiy on November 20, 2014 at 9:36 AM

Re: “Government has no place in economic development

The problem is that if City/County/State A throws tax dollars at a company to convince them to build a new plant there and City/County/State B doesn't - the company will choose the former.

This then makes B, C, D and everyone else have to do it. I don't see how to stop this without draconian regulations and some bureaucracy to investigate and enforce it.

0 of 1 people like this.
Posted by Cid95 on November 20, 2014 at 12:41 AM

Re: “Why are white men turning on women?

From NOW:

http://www.nownys.org/archives/leg_memos/o…

"Increased father involvement does not necessarily result in positive outcomes for children. "

2 of 3 people like this.
Posted by Fish Pimp on November 19, 2014 at 10:56 PM

Re: “Why are white men turning on women?

A Voice for Men seems very reasonable to me. Unlike the issue of the pay gap, there is clear institutional discrimination against fathers in custody battles. Why are organizations such as NOW opposing laws that mandate an assumption of 50/50 shared physical custody?

See Kramer vs Kramer

3 of 3 people like this.
Posted by Fish Pimp on November 19, 2014 at 10:32 PM

Re: “Why are white men turning on women?

Katie-

If you found articles refuting the one I posted, don't be shy, please share. As for the study itself and why I chose it: it was a report commissioned by the BLS that aggregated 50+ separate peer-reviewed studies of the supposed gender pay gap. Prior to that, many studies did not control for job selection (your more recent 2014 study you shared appears guilty of the same mistake, though I only had a chance to peruse the ). Such an oversight is a problem. It stands to reason that a male engineer and a female schoolteacher should not be paid the same; that is, though the engineer may make a considerable amount more, there's no imbalance there that requires correction, though technically a "pay gap" would exist. The BLS report found that when you controlled for these facts - women selecting careers with lower financial remuneration, women tending to prioritize benefits over direct compensation - the alleged pay gap shrunk to approximately 5%. It should also be noted that in the President's SOTU address in 2013 (I think) he mentioned the 77 cents on the dollar figure and it was fact-checked by numerous organizations (WaPo, Daily Beast) and ruled rather dubious.

Another less scientific but perhaps more intuitive point is that if women are really getting paid >20% less than men, it's a wonder they aren't being scooped up by bottom-line conscious corporations eager to shed costs.

As to your second point, on whether I think 5% is "acceptable," it doesn't really bother me. As I noted, the trend is that the gap has been closing uninterrupted, and if it was 5% in 2009, it might exist at this point w/in a certain margin of error. That certainly dovetails w/ research on the wages of millennials entering the job market (note that this research doesn't control for career choice, either; it happens that younger women are starting to enter high paying professions traditionally dominated by men). I'll also point out that private corporations are free to pay their employees as they see fit, and employees are free to negotiate their salaries (I seem to recall that women are much more hesitant to negotiate for a better salary).

4 of 4 people like this.
Posted by JamesFox on November 19, 2014 at 9:22 PM

Re: “Why are white men turning on women?

"We saw that mentality at its most extreme in the tragic shootings at UC-Santa Barbara earlier this year..."

Facts matter. That nutjob killed and injured people with a knife, a car and a gun. Making every murder a "shooting" is sloppy writing, though I grant that its not uncommon these days.

As for the topic, I wonder if any of the many aggrieved groups in the US have ever declared that things are fixed, case closed, we're good now. No? I can't think of any either. It seems unlikely to ever happen.

Categorizing "white men" as a homogenous groups is the first mistake, and it goes downhill from there.

7 of 7 people like this.
Posted by Cid95 on November 19, 2014 at 9:06 PM

Re: “Why are white men turning on women?

Ima, that is nowhere near what I said or implied and you know it. Nice try at deflecting, but standing up for myself does not automatically mean I am negating the entire rest of the spectrum.

2 of 3 people like this.
Posted by Katie Thompson on November 19, 2014 at 8:41 PM

Re: “The proposed Clemson Architecture Center is already behind the times

This was positively the ugliest design ever proposed for the city in its entire 300-year history, totally lacking in any sense of aesthetics and would have condemned three generations of citizens to look at it almost daily. Thank god it is gone. But my question to former president Barker who pursued this thing is why did he have to go to the left coast to find an architect? Hell go all the way to Asia where they seem to know good modern architecture. To top it off last year Clemson's School of Architecture celebrated its 100th birthday. Over the past century the school has received tens if not hundreds of millions in state support and contributions to turn out tens of thousands of graduates. Yet not one of those graduates was deemed good enough to be the lead architect on this project. Have we been wasting our tax money on this school all of these years?

Posted by Pc Coker on November 19, 2014 at 6:46 PM

Re: “Why are white men turning on women?

"And since when did intelligently written complaints become "whining?" Yet another way to demean and lessen women, making them look childish for standing up for ourselves. We're not whining, we're just tired of your insensitivity and dismissiveness." ???? I dissed the entire spectrum and only the one against women counts?? Oh yeah, I get it, unlike women the Gays, Blacks, Hispanics, Jews, Middle-Easterners, Old White Men, Conservatives, Liberals, Millennials, and Students deserved the disrespect. My bad, sorry Kate.

1 of 5 people like this.
Posted by Ima Oldman on November 19, 2014 at 5:57 PM

Re: “Why are white men turning on women?

Gamergate? A pack of doughboy whining pimply white boy nerdy ass social misfits 24/7 LOL and WOW- and that does not mean laugh out loud. You want your kids to turn out okay? Want them to fit into society? Want them to not turn into sociopathic murderers? Want to keep them from joining the he-man woman haters club with Alfalfa and the gang? Well then, Mom and Dad, you need to step up to the plate and take the fucking game controls out of their clammy little pale paws and shove their lard asses outside. Clear them pimples up with a little sunshine, lose weight when you get off the couch to walk and learn to interact face to face with people. They even have a 12 step program now for these nitwits. That right folks - OLGANON. 12 stepping for gamers. We really need to teach the kids to skateboard, surf, bmx it, paint graffiti, hit a baseball...whatever. I like games too, old school Nintendo Donkey Kong and Mario Bros - the best, but 7 days a week? Nah, I like my cocktails and mingling with the masses too much. No virtual cocktailing with virtual friends playing virtual games when real life is so much better.

9 of 11 people like this.
Posted by CIACulinaryKid on November 19, 2014 at 5:35 PM

Re: “The proposed Clemson Architecture Center is already behind the times

Modernism vs Traditional is tired and 40 years behind the times. both are valid in the appropriate context. We are post post modern for your info. More specifically regarding Charleston's place in the matter, it is a town that has a horrific past that has never been fully acknowledged. More emphasis on tradition points to white colonialism and this is very problematic to say the least. IF you are really hell bent on tradition, consider referencing the precolonial shell mounds of the Kiawah natives on your next traditional project Or The architecture of West Africa... Also problematic to reference the Lee Brothers and Shepard Fairey regarding your argument... Fairey references come out of the "traditions" of communist propaganda iconography and dada. One of the Lee Bros spouses creates extremely nontraditional sculpture/installation art. Maybe get their opinion first regarding architecture...

Posted by DenmarkVesey on November 19, 2014 at 5:24 PM
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