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Comment Archives: Stories: News+Opinion: Haire of the Dog: Last 7 Days

Re: “Duke prof posts racially inflammatory comment on NY Times story

There are so many problems with this false analogy, I've hesitated to begin, it's true. But since you think you've called me out, I suppose I must feed you like the welfare queen that you are.

Step 1: provide a single example of Asian-American culture. Does it even exist? What is uniquely American about Asian-Americans? What shared American experiences do they celebrate? What is the difference between a culture and a racial category?

Step 2: provide a single example of Asian-American social and institutional oppression. No one has provided one yet, including the professor from Duke. (hello? internment camps?) Until this assertion is QUANTIFIED there is no reason to believe there should be any similarities between the two cultures. How many Asian Americans were brought here against their will?

Step 3: Understand what cultural success means. While educational attainment (rote memory) equates to high paying jobs in America, the sum total of the output does not constitute achievement. Especially in the absence of persecution.

Let's quantify the number of Asian-American

US Presidents
Supreme Court Justices
Chairmen of Joint Chiefs of Staff
Attorneys Generals
Surgeons Generals
Nobel Prize winners for Literature
Nobel Prize winners for Peace

I reject the premise that we should measure the success of the two cultures by taxes paid and failure to avoid arrest.

When I say anti-intellectual, it is not a throw-away line. It is because your reasoning is purposely unsound. Conservative logic always starts with the outcome they desire and tries to reverse engineer the reasoning for it being true. They wanted war in Iraq so they hyped any false intelligence that made it look like Saddam had WMD or a connection to al queda. They want to pay fewer taxes so they hype false economic theories called supply-side economics. They want to spend less on the needy, so they are looking for a way to scapegoat the needy.

In this case, they only want blacks to take white names (like Toby) and pay taxes. (The rich won't be accepting the honor of paying, after all.) So they need to pretend that other racial minorities have overcome the same sorts of social and institutional barriers and therefore poverty and crime in the African American community must be the result of an economic choice or moral failing.

Of course it's a false analogy because the African-American culture is unique to the world. It's now over 400 years old and it continues to grow and advance and succeed globally in spite of the irrational hatred of people like you clowns.

Ironically, it's the people shouting about history that seem to have the least perspective on it. Nothing happened before 1965, know your history! These are the same people who believe that W and Mitt and Trump got where they are by hard work. Born on third base and thinks he hit a triple, as the saying goes.

We can debate the economic impacts of pop culture when you've passed steps 1-3.

Posted by Fish Pimp on May 22, 2015 at 8:30 PM

Re: “Duke prof posts racially inflammatory comment on NY Times story

Fish Pimp, are you really calling this whole thread out when you're the one who started its devolution into to a stupid shit-throwing contest?

Remember this?

"And what have Asian-Americans ever given to American culture? Love that Asian-American music. Asian-American authors and poets abound. Show me one Asian-American dance move. The box office is full of Asian-American movies."

You made that comment and proceeded to lambast someone for using actual metrics to verify the respective populations' contributions. The relative meaninglessness of pop culture contributions when weighed against that which you were ranting against makes the whole thing even more chuckle-worthy.

And when you got called on it, you downplayed the more compelling data (more compelling than I, Robot and "All The Single Ladies", anyway) and were even more dismissive and passive-aggressive than you were at first.

If you're not yet aware of how rich your last comment was, read through this whole thread again. It's clear who's fighting the losing battle.

You managed to make one of the most superficial and least thought-out comments I've ever seen on the CCP...and you ridiculed those who have articulated themselves far better than you....all the while using the word "anti-intellectual". And you did it in the same thread. Bravo. That kind of ignorant extends far beyond any political paradigm.

1 of 1 people like this.
Posted by warwit on May 22, 2015 at 4:39 PM

Re: “Duke prof posts racially inflammatory comment on NY Times story

I just love how all these white liberals know exactly what's right for their poor down-trodden black brothers, when none of them have ever experienced any thing of which they speak. But yet you say the other side are the ones that know nothing about the black experience. All of this by a majority white paper with mostly all white readers. Am I the only one that sees the irony in this. And then sit there and say there was never any discrimination against Asians or any other foreigners that came to the US?? I hate to break it to you but history goes back further than just 65 years. Leemajors, you have put forth no valid arguments here. You make it appear that all whites are prosperous and doing great. Go to Appalachian mtns and see the other side. Jim Crow had nothing to do with the unwed mothers and unstable homes that have happened since the white man stuck his nose in their business in 1965. White liberals created the situation we have today and don't want to admit it. They just want to keep doing the same thing which changes nothing.

2 of 3 people like this.
Posted by Showmoor on May 22, 2015 at 3:13 PM

Re: “The I'm-Not-Racists are right — black people are the cause of racism

They are held responsible, Showmoor.

In fact, it's a miracle when one of those criminals isn't murdered outright at the point of apprehension. And when they aren't murdered, they are sentenced more harshly than whites that are convicted of the same crime.

Posted by leemajors on May 22, 2015 at 1:26 PM

Re: “Duke prof posts racially inflammatory comment on NY Times story

Blaming income inequality on unstable homes, broken financial support systems, generational poverty--all of which were DIRECTLY exacerbated by Jim Crow and generations of slavery and institutional discrimination--is not a controversial viewpoint anywhere but in the conservative mindset.

I'd even argue that it is generally accepted as fact that african americans are still disadvantaged due to centuries of discrimination, but debating facts with the right is an exercise in futility.

0 of 2 people like this.
Posted by leemajors on May 22, 2015 at 1:23 PM

Re: “Why was Under Armour's Iwo Jima parody so offensive?

I don't expect anyone that hasn't served in the Marine Corps to understand, but as a former Marine, I find the image offensive. To make light of a battle where many brave warriors shed blood, is unwarranted. I can respect the opinion of those that disagree with me, so I expect the same in return.

2 of 3 people like this.
Posted by Fred Lupher on May 22, 2015 at 12:29 PM

Re: “Duke prof posts racially inflammatory comment on NY Times story

In the middle of a discussion about disproportionate numbers of unarmed black men getting killed by police, you morons want to both deny racial discrimination against black people and at the same time invent a history of racial discrimination against Asians. You are pathetic.

And without any irony, you tell others to learn history and get their heads out of their asses. lol This is the fantasy world of the modern anti-intellectual conservative.

0 of 3 people like this.
Posted by Fish Pimp on May 22, 2015 at 12:03 PM

Re: “Why was Under Armour's Iwo Jima parody so offensive?

I can see how people, especially Marines would be defensive of the Mt. Suribachi flag raising image. However, I was really expecting something distasteful or demeaning based on all the hubbub after reading about the protest. So... really? A silhouette of several guys putting up a hoop is too much for some peoples' sensibilities?

I want to understand, Devil Dogs, I really do. But I really don't.

0 of 2 people like this.
Posted by factoryconnection on May 22, 2015 at 10:17 AM

Re: “Why was Under Armour's Iwo Jima parody so offensive?

"People need to stop being "offended" by irrelevant things."

You're offended by people being offended by this; that's why you made a comment.

2 of 5 people like this.
Posted by Pronghorn on May 22, 2015 at 9:57 AM

Re: “Duke prof posts racially inflammatory comment on NY Times story

Leemajors, I don't normally deviate from eloquent debate to question folks' character. But you seem to genuinely have your head stuck up your ass.

You are aware that posting links proving that black people are poor doesn't prove or refute anything, right? We've already established that. The adults are trying to talk about causes, symptoms and solutions.

3 of 4 people like this.
Posted by warwit on May 22, 2015 at 9:53 AM

Re: “Duke prof posts racially inflammatory comment on NY Times story

Leemajors, your links basically state that if you are married, have a two-income household and work you will make more money that those that don't. I guess you have proven points made by those with common sense.

2 of 3 people like this.
Posted by Showmoor on May 22, 2015 at 9:32 AM

Re: “Duke prof posts racially inflammatory comment on NY Times story

Look up Moynihan's analysis in 1965 about the deterioration of the black family and you can see it's not just generational bs. Asians were competing with fisher men in La jus in the last three decades and you say there's never been a part of society threatened by them. Then you go on to state how there are few asian movies, music or dances? Perhaps this may be called prejudice. Also, asians were the ones who built our railroads and many other shitty jobs in the 1800s but they've had it made according to you. Learn history. Not just what is fed to you on the nightly news and this rag. Chris Haire is the editor of this rag. That should tell you something right there. He would never make it as an editor anywhere else. His opinions are just that, opinions.

0 of 1 people like this.
Posted by Showmoor on May 22, 2015 at 9:28 AM

Re: “The I'm-Not-Racists are right — black people are the cause of racism

Your paper seems to keep stirring the racial pot, but I don't remember seeing much written about the late night ramblings of the black teens in downtown Charleston, the shooting of Will Rogers or the fact that the 15 year old that shot the woman on Mother's Day. You know, the 15 year old that had an ankle bracelet on due to being out on bond. The one that was out shooting at 1:45 in the morning. What is your take on him? Shouldn't his parents be held responsible, also? Or are all blacks not held responsible due to the 400 years of oppression? Or is it that they just can't take care of themselves and need the whitey's help? If your hero Obama can do it why can't others? Or did Obama get put in the presidency as a puppet by whitey?? Just wondering.

2 of 2 people like this.
Posted by Showmoor on May 22, 2015 at 9:16 AM

Re: “Duke prof posts racially inflammatory comment on NY Times story

Nope, no evidence to support my opinion whatsoever.

http://iasp.brandeis.edu/pdfs/Author/shapi…

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2014/…

http://law.uoregon.edu/org/olrold/archives…

Basically, generational poverty, lack of financial support, a deeper reliance on student loans and lower rate/shorter term of asset ownership all restrict upward mobility for hispanics and african-americans.

1 of 2 people like this.
Posted by leemajors on May 22, 2015 at 8:52 AM

Re: “Duke prof posts racially inflammatory comment on NY Times story

Obeying laws, getting educated, having a job, paying taxes - you think we need less of this in the US? If you think these QUANTIFIABLE factors which Asian-Americans are at the top of and African Americans are at the bottom of are bad then we really have nothing to discuss. You don't want the same USA that myself and other normal Americans want. If you also advocate more diabetes, obesity, and heroin use then...at least you are consistent? So, gold star for that.

No African-American alive today had to overcome anything you listed. There are, of course, Cambodian-Americans (for example) who actually did have to overcome genocide. Themselves. Not their great-great-great grandparents. They, like many other immigrants who have survived similar horrors, just took the opportunities available to all Americans and got on with it and succeeded.

But, of course, African Americans are different. And it can't be measured or quantified. And I can never understand.

1 of 2 people like this.
Posted by Cid95 on May 22, 2015 at 5:10 AM

Re: “Duke prof posts racially inflammatory comment on NY Times story

So, wait, you think the biggest cultural contribution of Asian-Americans is paying taxes? lol Suddenly paying taxes is honorable? That's funny.

And Asian-Americans are to be honored as examples of conformity. lol You sound like a communist.

You, of course, skip providing examples of the QUANTIFIABLE discrimination that Asian-Americans suffered at the hands of American society. For example, how many Asian-Americans were ever killed because they learned to read? How many Asian-American families were ripped apart and sold to different states? How many Asian-American women were raped by their American masters? And for how many centuries did this occur to the Asian-American community? What have Asian-Americans had to overcome?

The sentiment of "starting in 1965 everybody has a level playing field so why can't blacks be like Asians" is so obtuse that it cannot be taken seriously.

1 of 3 people like this.
Posted by Fish Pimp on May 21, 2015 at 9:53 PM

Re: “Duke prof posts racially inflammatory comment on NY Times story

Fishpimp:

"And what have Asian-Americans ever given to American culture? Love that Asian-American music. Asian-American authors and poets abound. Show me one Asian-American dance move. The box office is full of Asian-American movies.

Now tell me the economic value of these things and their impact on our economy. How exactly do we measure the success of an American sub-culture?"

Wow. This shows what's wrong with the US today. The only contributions to American culture that matter are, apparently, Jay Z and Urkel and such?

Asian Americans are the US racial demographic with the highest average income. So, one thing they are doing is paying taxes, lots of taxes. I know that's a hypothetical to many people on here who don't contribute federal income taxes, but that's one of the most important contributions citizens can make.

Asian Americans are also setting the example as law abiding citizens, they have the lowest arrest rates of any US racial demographic.

They are also setting the example for how to raise children, they have the highest amount of wed parents at birth.

They are also the highest educated racial demographic in the US, and are at the head of many companies, particularly in the technology sector.

I would measure the success of a US racial demographic by those QUANTIFIABLE factors. Instead, though, we get BS about movies and music?

Everyone is starting from the same base in America now, and for the past several decades. There is no excuse to not use the opportunities given.

If I wanted to set myself up as the victim in a problem which could last years or decades or forever, I would definitely set it up with parameters that couldn't be defined and using other factors which only I could decide or, indeed, claim to understand. Sound familiar?

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Posted by Cid95 on May 21, 2015 at 4:09 PM

Re: “Duke prof posts racially inflammatory comment on NY Times story

Of course, that's totally a totally unsupportable statement from Leemajors.

But that doesn't matter since I'm white so, as I've been told, I couldn't possibly understand this subject and therefore it requires no proof.

1 of 2 people like this.
Posted by Cid95 on May 21, 2015 at 3:51 PM

Re: “Why was Under Armour's Iwo Jima parody so offensive?

People need to stop being "offended" by irrelevant things. The invasion and victory at Iwo Jima is relevant. The flag-raising photo is relevant.

Some ad using the photo isn't relevant.

1 of 3 people like this.
Posted by Cid95 on May 21, 2015 at 3:36 PM

Re: “Duke prof posts racially inflammatory comment on NY Times story

The plural of anecdote is not data.

Generation poverty is a direct result of centuries of subjugation, disproportionate sentencing and institutional discrimination.

1 of 4 people like this.
Posted by leemajors on May 21, 2015 at 10:05 AM
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