WOW, Strom, that is some good analysis.....
"Do you all understand how negotiation works? You ask for the moon than negotiate for something less. The $15/hr is a negotiation starting point. If an employer meets them in the middle in the $11.50 range that's a huge win. Whereas if they started with a "reasonable" demand they'd end up settling for something even less. I hope none of you are buying a car any time soon."
No. If you want people to support your demands, you go for a reasonable rate. When I am buying a car, I don't offer half the asking price for the car. Just like you don't ask for 2x minimum wage. If the demand was like $9 an hour, I would probably get behind that.
"If I hear one more person say "but my [better/more important than MacDonalds] job only pays [x], they don't deserve as much as me!" I'm going to scream. You're underpaid too dumbass! Instead of trying to keep those with a little less than you down, why not try standing up together?"
No. I never thought I was underpaid working as a researcher.
I started as a $2.50 minimum wage worker at Taco Bell back when Glenn Bell was the sole owner. I was told that if I did well after 3 weeks I would get a raise. I did well, I got a raise. I was told if I offered to work the odd hours, I would get paid more hours and be considered for a higher rate. I did and they paid me more. I became a shift manager and they paid me more. I became an assistant manager and they paid me more and benefits. I became a manager and they paid me more. I became a traveling trainer opening new Taco Bells and training staff and managers. I made sure every new employee knew where I started. I then quit and went back to school to get a degree in something that I was told was marketable. I did not get a degree in Black Studies or Gay History in America or any number of absolutely useless degrees many have received from these so called schools (yes I include South Carolina and C of C!). Now I make a nice little living and I get to wake up everyday working in a field I love doing a job I enjoy.
Where did I go wrong?
http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/justice/cnn-fi… This is why we need solicitor oversight!
There are only two ways to pay employees more money:
Raise prices and profit margins to make up the difference, which simply passes the financial burden on to the customer, or do the same amount work with fewer, more highly compensated employees.
I guess the third option would be replacing whiny, undependable and expensive human beings with machines, a practice which is gaining momentum every year.
Bank tellers were replaced with ATM's.
Video rental clerks were replaced with Redbox's.
Auto detailers were replaced with Laser Wash 4000's.
Does it matter if your bacon cheeseburger is cooked, assembled, wrapped, bagged and handed to you by a machine? Tomorrow's high paying jobs at Mickey D's will be for the engineers who assemble and maintain the 24 hour a day food service robots. These fools going on strike will only hasten the day when they can be replaced by a machine.
Do the math.
Pretend you own a fast food franchise and need to staff a position (assembling hamburgers, for example) for 24 hours a day, 365 days a year at $15 per hour. You are going to spend $15 x 24 x365 = $131,400 per year to fill that position.
Since a single person can't work 24/7/365, you will need to hire enough people to cover that job function. A forty hour work week with two weeks vacation works out to 2,000 hours (40 x 50 = 2,000 hours). But you need to staff that position 24/7/365 (24 x 365 = 8,760 hours), meaning you will need 4.38 full time workers to do that job. And now that Obamacare forces you to provide health insurance for full time employees, it is more likely that 10 to 12 part timers will be needed to fill that one position.
Now, along comes Sammy Slick, the salesman from Acme Robot's hamburger flipping division. He offers you a hamburger assembling robot that costs a half million dollars. It can assemble an equal or greater number of burgers than a human being, and can do so with greater consistency. The robot can be easily reconfigured as new menu options become available, and it has a functional lifespan of 6 years. A quick bit of math will tell you that the human beings will cost you $788,400 over a six year period, but the robot will only cost $500,000 over the same period of time.
The decision is a no brainer, especially when you consider that the robot won't call in sick, won't pilfer your consumables, won't engage in inappropriate behavior with other employees, and won't go on strike or complain about an "unfair" wage. Furthermore, you won't need to do the tedious book keeping, have to worry about keeping the position filled, or providing the robot with health insurance. A robot won't say offensive things to a customer or get its feelings hurt by a customer. A robot won't show up for work sick, spreading germs throughout your workforce and to your customers.
The fast food industry has already begun to replace humans with automation. Have you seen the new automated beverage dispensers? When an order is placed, it fills the right sized cup with the perfect amount of ice and the right kind of beverage every time.
I suspect that these foolish strikes and protests will only hasten the inevitable.
But will y'all hold up in the stretch?
Equality of opportunity (which clearly have in the US) may not deliver equality of results.
Trying to legislate equal outcomes is ridiculous. Note - to succeed economically you might have to leave your comfort zone. It might be difficult.
Eventually, the price of labor will hit the point where the workers will be replaced by machines. McATMs, anybody?
I admire the efforts made by opponents of the proposed I-526 extension. These activists have brought an issue that was well-understood but seldom-discussed in activism circles to the forefront- the very real risk posed to the culture of the Lowcountry.
Over the last few decades, the Lowcountry's culture has been threatened by the influx of tens of thousands of non-natives. The state's property tax system has allowed the influx of wealthy non-natives to drive up property tax rates, forcing low-income, land-owning native Lowcountry residents off their land. This property tax system has also hurt local farms (which are rendered uncompetitive by higher property taxes) and consequently aided urban sprawl by forcing farmers off their land.
In our cities, there are campaigns to attract wealthy non-natives and develop high-income housing under the guise of '"protecting architectural traditions" and "urban renewal". Preference is given for the development of expensive traditional architectural designs marketed towards wealthy transplants over aesthetically-traditional, yet high-density housing that lower-income natives can afford. "Urban renewal" is simply a euphemism for "displacing low-income natives with moneyed outsiders". Nothing is being renewed or revitalized- only replaced by something else from the outside.
Both the current property tax arrangement and "urban renewal" programs have been supported by many in the real estate industry- It's completely fair to say they have a racket going along with cultural displacement. Let's call it what it is.
This trend can be seen to some degree in all of the Lowcountry's metropolitan areas- While the Lowcountry is defined by Charleston's sphere of influence, this sphere of influence extends far beyond the Charleston metropolitan area its self. The Georgetown, Conway, Beaufort, Aiken, Florence, Hilton Head, and Hardeeville areas are some of the other places in the Lowcountry that have experienced cultural displacement.
Gullah, the English creole language of the Gullah people (one of the cultures within the larger Lowcountry culture) and lingua franca of much of the Lowcountry until relatively recent times, has been systematically attacked through the displacement of Gullah communities by Northerners establishing resorts and suburban communities. The Charleston Brogue- not just that of the city limits, but all dialects of Lowcountry English- has also retreated into the houses of minds of those who fear discrimination in employment, and abandoned by youth and younger adults who fear they will be ostracized if they retain their native tongues.
Resistance to linguistic displacement is key in our struggle. We need to wake and realize that not everyone needs to speak Upper Midwest English to be a smart, successful person. Nor do we need Upper Midwest "General American" English to be the dialect of our mass media. We should encourage linguistic revitalization through the restoration of our dialects to the airwaves. In the United Kingdom, the importance of this has already been realized- The UK "standard" dialect, Received Pronunciation, no longer dominates UK mass media.
There is also the issue of ecological destruction. As urban sprawl has intensified in the last few years, more marshlands, woodlands, swamps have been developed- the protection of our natural wonders is a key part of our cultural defense efforts. They are pieces of cultural iconography like any other. The proposed extension of I-526 only promises to encourage sprawl and further damage marshland ecosystems.
Some deride us for standing up for our culture. When they do that, we should just ask them how they would feel about the same thing happening in Scotland, Friesland, or Catalonia. As a constituent people of the United States, we in the Lowcountry have every bit as much as the constituent peoples of the UK, the Netherlands, Spain, or any other country to our culture. If the same thing we are experiencing happened in any of these places, there would be a global outcry. There should be no double standards. Everyone's cultural independence and right to their home should be respected.
Proponents of our displacement also say that they are bringing wealth and prosperity to an impoverished land. The fact that we face high levels of poverty is no secret, and we must acknowledge this- but when these proponents make these claims, they imply we are unable to address these issues ourselves and that we are incapable of being the custodians of our own land.
Our cultural preservation efforts, like those of any other people, are perfectly compatible with modernity- We can use the money set to be allocated for the extension I-526 to improve our schools and the economic well-being of our people. There is no cognitive dissonance in being a proud defender of one's culture and also recognizing a need to improve the standard of living in one's land.
Of course, stopping the I-526 project isn't an easy task- We must draw attention to our struggle from outside the Lowcountry if we intend to win. And it's important to remember that this is just one hurdle in a series of many others yet to come.
The situation we face is not particular to us- It is part of a trend happening all across the South. Look at the plight of the native inhabitants of the Atlanta area, the Cajuns in Acadiana, the Louisiana Creoles, the native inhabitants of Northern Virginia and the Shenandoah Valley, the Texas Germans of Central Texas, the Isleños of Southeastern Louisiana, the native inhabitants of West Texas, the native inhabitants of Florida, and countless others. Southern culture and the South's peoples are under siege. It's as simple as that.
Does the current trend affect areas of South Carolina outside the Lowcountry?
Without question! This is an issue of statewide significance- Not only does the completion of any project like this encourage more frivolous DOT spending, but it accedes to displacement and urban sprawl taking place in the Upcountry.
Look at the urban sprawl and displacement in the South Carolina side of the Charlotte, North Carolina metropolitan area. Look at the same thing is going on in the Greenville-Spartanburg-Anderson area.
Write to out of town newspapers (both in state and out of state) on the issue and draw attention to the larger trend.
Bring in the support of Southern environmental groups from outside the Lowcountry.
This is something state political leaders must address. Press the gubernatorial 2014 gubernatorial candidates on the issue. Let your concerns be known to your state assemblymen.
Demand for the abolition of property taxes and the establishment of a hefty development tax- one that only those who wish to perpetuate the current trend of sprawl will be subjected to.
We cannot solve the crisis by only continuing to argue with the same opponents we have faced for years. It's time to broaden the scope of our activism.
The Carolus Blog
Follow me @StromMcCallum on Twitter
If I hear one more person say "but my [better/more important than MacDonalds] job only pays [x], they don't deserve as much as me!" I'm going to scream. You're underpaid too dumbass! Instead of trying to keep those with a little less than you down, why not try standing up together?
Do you all understand how negotiation works? You ask for the moon than negotiate for something less. The $15/hr is a negotiation starting point. If an employer meets them in the middle in the $11.50 range that's a huge win. Whereas if they started with a "reasonable" demand they'd end up settling for something even less. I hope none of you are buying a car any time soon.
Who do you think pays the minimum wage? The consumer. Wages go up prices go up. Unless you are one of those special kinds of assholes who thinks otherwise like being held accountable is too much to ask. To those special kinds of assholes I say liquidate all you have and give it away so that you won't have more than another and feel guilty.
The issue is $15/hr, bottom line! As mentioned above, that's overkill. Why not propose a more reasonable rate?
Hopefully we can inch our way up to 8 or 9 next year....
Exactly. The issue is whether or not the business itself should pay a living wage for its employees through the businesses own earnings, or whether the entire country should pay through taxes for the welfare, food stamps, and assorted to make up the rest of the employee's living wage.
The issue is whether you want the business itself to pay for its workers, or if you yourself want to pay for its workers.
I would rather have the business pay the wages, and have me pay for the unemployment and welfare for the few who truly need it.
"You people realize that when people make poverty wages the public makes up the difference through public assistance, right?"
I have no problem with these people getting paid more, but $15 is overkill. I know many college graduates that started out at that hourly rate. Hell, I have seen engineering contractor positions posted starting at $17/hr.
You people realize that when people make poverty wages the public makes up the difference through public assistance, right? I'd rather MacDonalds have to pay their employees more so less people be need to be on public assistance.
Of course, if you're one of those special kinds of assholes who thinks the poor should be made to suffer for their "bad choices" you probably don't want them to get any assistance or any raises.
When I was in college, I only made $10 an hour researching advanced computer applications for coal/mineral analysis. I don't think the college pays a whole lot more today. Why does a McD's employee deserve to make $5 more than that an hour? Don't get me wrong, I am all for an increase in salary for hard workers, and it is sad the fast food chains pay so little. I just don't know if bitching to the government is the right way to go about this.
So if the minimum wage goes up to $15 will the fast food places get rid of the sorry asses that work there and hire some competent employees?
If you don't like the pay don't take the job.
Trollslayer - as a product of the South Carolina public school system, and due to my own inadequacies, I am terrible at math and science. Assuming I'd somehow managed to get through an engineering program and graduate, would you really want me engineering anything you came into contact with?
When the wages paid must be raised beyond what the workers are worth, then the cost of the product goes up. Then, everyone else wants a raise too, so the cost of their products go up too. So, even with their new raises, the cost to live stays out of reach of the lowest paid echelon.
It's called inflation.
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