Imagined offenses are difficult to disprove. Please explain why "minorities, the elderly, and college students" are not able to get a picture ID like everybody else, including all the other "minorities, the elderly, and college students" who have picture IDs.
"Please someone show some proof of people voting illegally in South Carolina."
They can't, because there isn't any.
"The only reason to oppose voter ID is that you want to make it easier for people to cast fraudulent votes. If you say otherwise you are lying to yourself."
The only reason to support voter ID is that you want to make it harder for people to cast votes for candidates you don't like. If you say otherwise you are lying to yourself.
OK. So the argument is that people who expect someone to have identification to vote hate poor people. Well, the folks on the other side must want to keep them poor. No ID means no job. Means no access to medical care. Means no access to social services. Means they can't pick up their Kenny Chesney tickets at willcall. The only reason to oppose voter ID is that you want to make it easier for people to cast fraudulent votes. If you say otherwise you are lying to yourself.
Here is an actual documented case of election fraud in South Carolina that occurred in November 2011 in Horry county and that person, a former GOP leader, was recently arrested for the crime.
I wonder if people who think people are going to vote illegally actually vote in their precinct? Do you ever see shady people you do not know sneaking in and voting? Wouldn't someone take out their iphone and film them and their car license plates and then that person would go to jail?
Do we actually think thousands of illegal voters are going to risk going to jail for election fraud for voting for Obama or Romney?
We have proof of machines malfunctioning, votes not being counted, too many votes counted, and tens of thousands of missing ballots.
Please someone show some proof of people voting illegally in South Carolina.
"Many times in the past, in many posts, i have requested any info anyone has at all. I'm open to as much info as possible. Cut and paste, provide links. It makes no difference to me. Knowledge is power."
But what's the point? We've spent years here going back and forth with the useless information wars and bitching and moaning about sources and no one's ever said, "Oh, wow. What good information. I might have to change my mind on this issue or, at least, consider it differently from now on."
No, we're all a bunch of close-minded assholes. And we always will be. The amount of force it takes to combat the inertia of our own brain wiring on certain issues is almost completely impossible to muster.
"Again with the personal attack on the poster."
"Lets deal with the issue at hand."
I already pointed out you weren't doing that. Only Garfield22 has. Debs to a lesser degree. Moredock's column this week is about the disconnect between the right wing screaming about election fraud in the form of (imagined) voter fraud and the ignoring of actual problems with the electoral system in the form of electronic voting machines.
Would you like to actually debate the data on how electronic voting is probably a greater threat to democracy than a horde of dead people voting in Chicago? No, of course not, because it doesn't fit the narrative or the talking points issued by ALEC, FreedomWorks, and Fox News.
"its fairly simple and Cid95 hit it right on the head. No one is trying to keep anyone from the voting booth."
Yes, they are. This has been going on for the better part of a decade. When they got called out for doing it in a sketchy manner, they turned to codifying it.
So, if no one's trying to disenfranchise voters, how do you explain to the 200,000 of your fellow South Carolinians who are no longer eligible to vote why they suddenly can't vote? If the legislation is aimed at stopping fraud and not disenfranchisement, then why can't these people vote?
"A photo id makes perfect sense."
Sure. No problem there. The problem is in how high the bar is set for someone to prove who they are in order to acquire that photo ID and/or challenging their residency based on status as a student.
Here's an idea: Why not a national voter database? That would pretty much end the problem of voter fraud from coast to coast, wouldn't it? Oh, except that for decades conservatives have railed against a national ID system, haven't they? Suddenly, though, the narrative has shifted from "personal freedom" to "keeping the poor and the minorities" from voting, so we're totally OK with photo ID in civic matters, right?
"As no faith pointed out, I have to have a photo id to rent bowling shoes but not when i vote. Thats insanity."
No, that's the difference between a private company being stupid about their bowling shoes and someone exercising a civil right. You don't have a civil right to bowling shoes.
"As far as Senator Byrd or even Strom Thurmond for that matter, I personally have no time for any racists no matter the party or when it happened. I don't have to accept their apologies or believe them. Thats my personal right. The racist will probaly have to answer for their trangressions at some point. thats between themselves and their creator (whoever, whatever that might be)"
You're fine to believe any and all of that, as long as you apply it equally to all people. Unfortunately, since the vast majority of the bigoted, racist assholes still slithering through the public halls of government aren't even honest about their despicable bullshit, I suppose you can't hold them to that standard.
"My idea of horribly stupid conversations and your idea are obviously opposed.
I'm open to everyone's freedom of speech.
You would obviously be happy if there were no opposing viewpoints and only those that agree with each other on this site can go on patting each other on the back."
This isn't about free speech, even in the contorted manner in which most people think they know what that concept even means.
I'm not against opposing viewpoints. What I am against is the notion that we still need to debate certain points. In my view, most of what passes for "conservative" ideas at this point in time is very much akin to throwing virgins into the volcano as a sacrifice. Outdated and draconian, deprecated and discredited. Why should we bother debating ideas and concepts that are long-dead and pointless? What purpose does it serve?
The problem with the Conservative mindset today is that it absolutely refuses to see that the world is changing and it is hellbent on doing whatever it can to prevent the change from happening. Any discussions about what we're doing in the present and what we should do in the future shouldn't depend on what a bunch of frightened white people think we should do to push things back to the way they were in the 1950s.
You're certainly entitled to your freedom to hold these ideas and beliefs, but I'm not required to take them seriously. The problem is that too many people do take them seriously, including the people who are currently making policy at the local, state, and national level.
You want to know what's really going to destroy the American system of democracy? The insane desire to make sure it never escapes the 19th century.
The "legally eligible" part is the clever bit, where you simply make people you don't like no longer "legally eligible" and then stand back and say, "well, that's how the system works".
Does it help assuage any of the guilt of being a racist?
Many times in the past, in many posts, i have requested any info anyone has at all. I'm open to as much info as possible. Cut and paste, provide links. It makes no difference to me. Knowledge is power.
Again with the personal attack on the poster. Lets deal with the issue at hand.
its fairly simple and Cid95 hit it right on the head. No one is trying to keep anyone from the voting booth. A photo id makes perfect sense. As no faith pointed out, I have to have a photo id to rent bowling shoes but not when i vote. Thats insanity.
As far as Senator Byrd or even Strom Thurmond for that matter, I personally have no time for any racists no matter the party or when it happened. I don't have to accept their apologies or believe them. Thats my personal right. The racist will probaly have to answer for their trangressions at some point. thats between themselves and their creator (whoever, whatever that might be)
My idea of horribly stupid conversations and your idea are obviously opposed.
I'm open to everyone's freedom of speech.
You would obviously be happy if there were no opposing viewpoints and only those that agree with each other on this site can go on patting each other on the back.
Voting is important. I think that is commonly agreed. Each eligible voter gets only one vote in our system. Verifying ID is an obvious and valid part of the process. Oh wait, it's not? Obviously, it needs to be. No one that wants to vote and is legally eligible will be disenfranchised.
I'd love to post something for artrogue about how Voter ID laws disenfranchise voters but it would probably come from some "socialist" site and therefore be automatically disqualified from being taken seriously, so why bother?
I could also point out that artrogue's link about West Virginia voter fraud doesn't address the same issue as the concept of fraud in elections through either faulty or hacked (or just programmed that way) election machines, or through people illegally voting. But there's probably just some bizarre and esoteric connection between the two that I'm missing, so what's the point?
Or, I could point out that Senator Byrd spent literally decades apologizing for his admitted membership in the Ku Klux Klan. But then we might have to have a discussion about whether or not people can actually be forgiven for their sins or missteps or if we expect people to be perfect and/or we'd have to talk about all the sketchy groups that modern GOP members are active in (but deny it and/or aren't sorry about at all) and that would just be a horribly stupid conversation in so many ways.
But then artrogue wouldn't be left with anything to say.
C'mon it's South Carolina. What do you expect?
"The key to understanding the law is to understand that it would disenfranchise nearly 200,000 voters in South Carolina, mostly minorities, the elderly, and college students, three groups that tend to vote heavily for Democrats. "
Why are these estimated 200,000 voters disenfranchised? Someone is keeping them from voting? They have no ability to register to vote? They can't get a drivers license either?
as far as fraud... I posted this in response to one of your previous columns in March. http://westvirginia.watchdog.org/4061/vote… Seems there has been some serious voter fraud recently.
Maybe not in SC but wild and wonderful West Virginia. Maybe they are Kinfolk of the late Democratic Senator Robert Byrd. Who was a member of the KKK at one time and not just a member but a high official and recruiter.
Thank you, Mr. Moredock!
Failure to count the votes correctly has been demonstrated in several counties and the House Judiciary Committee does not want to take this very simple step to fix that problem -- require the State Elections Committee to do a post-election audit of the voting machines. What is to dislike about this bill? It is a real "no brainer."
It's even possible that having the post-election audit proposed in S.1025 might prevent or detect hacking. Why not pass this bill?
Our Justice department and Mr Holder are trying to stop states , mostly in the south , from putting in place an requirement to stop voter fraud and Mr Moredock knows its true, there has been plenty of voter fraud throughout the country to justify it in all states. Mr Holder knows that when all states can have that law of Voter ID then the Liberal democrats will no longer have ther ability to continue their acts of voter fraud. all the dead who vote , and all the dogs and cartoon people who vote , even those who live in other states somehow still vote in alot of elections more than once.remember the Acorn group who had people voting 25 times each until caught. putting any name on a form and getting a ballot for them to vote, Even to the point of the Black Panthers standing in front of the voting places with clubs in hand , but did the Justice Dept. and Mr Holder do anything ? "NOPE" and now Holder is trying his best to stop a sovereign state from passing a law to stop voter fraud or not let it start in South Carolina, Holder even knows that people are required to show an ID to even enter his building and many other Buildings in the land, you have to show a Picture ID to get SS benifits as well as other Government support.all who drive must abtain a Picture ID on ones Driver Lic., how many family members do you know who didn't have a way to go and vote the last time ?How many filled out the forms to get their Voter Reg. card ? so what is the big problem ? Its "FREE" I see none ! other than trying to make a political point and cover their Voter fraud ways . Closing this door with the Voter ID law , does stop alot of the voter fraud in any state . North or south. What has a voter ID requirement to vote have to do with civil rights ? "NOTHING" The state of IN. just passed their Voter ID law, and Mr Holder said nothing about it, so has other states . I think Mr Holoder is keeping the Voter Fraud doors opened for MR Obama so he may be able to win in a real close vote, But the Nation is watching him and MR Obama and his community groups like acorn and others.. real close.And also watch the real boss in the WH Val. Jerrett , This is the most corrupt WH group in american history, and every citizen who values our freedoms and system of Replacing those who are suppose to work for us the citizen need to watch over the process with a sharp eye. The need to stop this man in the WH from governing by EXE order is needful if america is to stay Free and Remain a Republic . It is a clear and present danger what Obama and Holder are doing All those Guns that were sent to the Drug lords in Mexico was a ticket that Obama and Holder thought would get more Restrictive Guns laws placed into law and take away the citizens firearms, and now Holder is hiding the truth about him and this WH and its leader Obama who both were involved in this mess, yes these are dangerous people who try to hide and lie to the People , and now we have two very anti-american Judges sitting on our Highest court, And who cares what the ACLU thinks, the most anti-American group on the Planet, Please give me a break . The ACLU is the group that commits sedition on a daily basis in america, even its founder went to Federal prison for that very thing.. study its History..
No surprise really, the do-nothing Republicans refuse to fix anything. Unless of course it is a fake problem they can create out of thin air and then pass legislation (written by their puppet master ALEC) to act like they are actually doing something productive.
And if it was required that people bring an ID to vote then a portion of the problems in elections could be ruled out. Requiring someone to have the same proof of identity that is required to rent a pair of bowling shoes is not the big deal that is being made of it.
You know how I know you didn't read (or, more likely, didn't understand) the piece, Clarkie?
Are you kidding ? Just because its a Black school it should not be looked into for corruption regardless how small to some . is everybody afraid of being called a racists by the ignorant ?
The college of Charleston, while basically very liberal, is no better off than any other University in the state. The Citadel is undergoing rapid transformation and with John Rosa's reputation it will improve. Remember he was not President when most of these thing were even on the drawing board. The Marine Grinalds was, but not a word about him. All this being said the current administration of the Cof C is the best we've had in lower Charleston in a couple of decades. The USC and Citadel are continuing to correct wrongs and are moving forward. What can be said of SC State? In spite of all the exposure and hand wringing nothing changes. We still know zip about the great Transportation Complex and money keeps disapearing. Just this once an overseeing board should be put in place to keep this school open and just maybe prospering.
The House of Representatives would do well to ask why the board at the College of Charleston is almost exclusively white, and why women are underrepresented on the board at a school where the majority of students are women.
Ah, memories! We used this book when I was in the 7th grade (1953, alas). The class was "taught" by the dummest teacher I can recall ever having.
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